Eric Allen Ehrbar
Oct 21 1998
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting.vintage
I don't think it matters how long I've been a collector or what my
collecting level is. If I think something is a little odd or silly, I
think I should have a right to say so without being charged with
"forcing an idea down someone's throat."
Am I passing judgement? Sure, I have a right to create my OWN
impressions of people. What I will not do is pass on a sentance or
discriminate against those different from me. But forming an opinion is
natural and expressing it IS NOT a crime.
Eric
Scott Janish
Oct 21 1998
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting.vintage
Dude go back and reread who posted what. Mike Mierzwa did not call
boxed collecting stupid, it was someone else. Mike collects new and
vintage, he has bought several vintage figs from me. Why does
collecting the new stuff count as a mark against him? Lots of us
collect both.
The reason he passed on the Mint boxed Jabba was because of the high
cost. Since he simply wants a minty mint Jabba he didn't buy the
minty mint box, he will wait for a non-mint box to open.
Read before you pass judgement...
Scott
salfamily
Oct 21 1998
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting.vintage
> Yikes, a year ago I bought one in an unsealed beat-up box for $20. The
> toy is mintymint and the parts were still in their baggies. This
> couldn't be that hard to find, could it? Did I luck out?
In a way, you lucked out--$20 is pretty good even for a complete, loose Jabba
set these days. But I definitely wouldn't say that they're "hard to find,"
even boxed and sealed. A rather huge amount of Jabba figures and playset
parts were left over when the line tanked, and much of the overstock was sold
off through dealers. This is why you still see so many bagged pipes and S.
Crumbs around today. These catalog boxes (white with line art) were around
too in unused condition. Inevitably, what happened was that people bought the
unused parts and "sealed" them inside of the white boxes. Or so I've been
told, at any rate. I'm assuming that a fair amount of the catalog box Jabba
sets that were making the rounds a few years back were assembled in this way.
You can still find the Jabba figures, playset pieces (these especially) and
the boxes in unused condition, but the prices have risen considerably, and
some of the components are much more scarce.
Sealed Jabba sets (regular box) are hardly uncommon either. Cases of them
still turn up from time to time.
ron
tfpriceguide
Oct 21 1998
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting.vintage
> Dude go back and reread who posted what. Mike Mierzwa did not call
> boxed collecting stupid, it was someone else. Mike collects new and
> vintage, he has bought several vintage figs from me. Why does
> collecting the new stuff count as a mark against him? Lots of us
> collect both.
> The reason he passed on the Mint boxed Jabba was because of the high
> cost. Since he simply wants a minty mint Jabba he didn't buy the
> minty mint box, he will wait for a non-mint box to open.
> Read before you pass judgement...
maybe you should to as he begins his post as " I too think keeping stuff in
the box is stupid"
Michael Mierzwa
Oct 21 1998
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting.vintage
> Where do you favor boxed items? at the beginnig of your post you call leaving
> things in the box "stupid" You are only in favor of boxed items when you can
> open them and obtain mint playsets, that is not the same thing as collecting
> sealed boxed veichles or unsued contents for the unused contents or the case
> fresh aspect which you seem to be criticizing.
No I most certainly did not. Here is my post:
Subject: Re: Anyone notice vintage prices are going down???
[snip Buba Fett's post]
> I've been a collector/dealer of valuable worthless junk for about 25 years
I agree that leaving it in the box stinks. What I do when I buy mini
I almost bought a sealed Jabba the Hutt playset this weekend just to get
Michael Mierzwa
[END]
Now where exactly did I say anything is stupid???
Personally, I think you owe me an apology! You've twice implied I said
> > Bubba Fett nor I have passed any judgements. We stated two *very*
> > different opinions.
> Calling something stupid to me is passing judgement.
I didn't call ANYBODY stupid! :(
You really should look before you continue to argue an UNTRUE statement!
> > But you rushed to judgement by lumping two opposing views in one post.
> My intent was to use both of you as examples of outspoken new figure
I have experience with boxed items.
I've bought most all of the mini-rigs MIB. I've bought the Imperial
Your intent was to mislead people and claim I said something I NEVER
I am not a new collector and I have plenty of experience.
The reason I didn't pay $75 for the sealed Jabba, is somebody else just
BTW line art boxes are the ones without photographs. Most new
I still believe you owe me an apology. I've quoted my post, and yet you
Michael Mierzwa
Michael Mierzwa
> Yikes, a year ago I bought one in an unsealed beat-up box for $20. The
Yup. That is the market value these days too.
The box was a catalog line-art which is very different from the box with
It was mint perfect, but for $75 I'd rather have the Rebel Command
Michael Mierzwa
Michael Mierzwa
> maybe you should to as he begins his post as " I too think keeping stuff in
Actually you should really take Scott's advice. I posted the quote and
"I agree that leaving it in the box stinks. ..." And I go on to talk
I never said that keeping stuff in the box is stupid. There is a world
Nor did I ever attack people like John who have boght sealed Death
But I never said anything in my post that was judgemental of what other
From the get go, you misquoted my name. Which was the first sign you
Then despite both my own and Scott's objections and requests for you to
I think you are doing both you and me at least a minor injustice. If
Michael Mierzwa
Salfamily
> My Dagobah Playset is a hybrid as is my ESB Falcon box.
Well, all the Kenner U.S. Dagobah and Falcon boxes have both photographed
Some Kenner Canada boxes were different, however. The Kenner Canada versions of
ron
Bubba Bo Bob Fett
> My intent was to use both of you as examples of outspoken new figure
I have been been collecting various items for over 25 years and have been
I generally lurk here because I find this group to be very stuffy and
I've said it before and i will say it again; I know the reasons for
Bubba Bo Bob Fett- who had nothing fun to write here because this group
tfpriceguide
> I think you are doing both you and me at least a minor injustice. If
I think you are also misinterperting where I am coming from as well. My
And I have no problem with people expressing their opinion, but I would
later
tfpriceguide
> I generally lurk here because I find this group to be very stuffy and
Well, I think a lot of people think the same way of this group, even myself.
> I've said it before and i will say it again; I know the reasons for
That's fine and I can understand your point. If the toy is your primary
Salfamily
>I generally lurk here because I find this group to be very stuffy and
I've been reading the various SW newsgroups for a few years now and there have
>here seem to be too defensive about the way they collect.
The fact of the matter is that there are a lot of MIB collectors who frequent
>Bubba Bo Bob Fett- who had nothing fun to write here because this group
Well, I'm sorry to hear that. But, you're free to start a thread, ask some
This is a good newsgroup. There are people here who know their stuff, who've
ron
Positive Images Private Fitness
All of the arguing shipped
This could have been a great discussion topic. I would like to hear
If you guys want to start a thread about collecting sealed items vs. MIB
So, has anyone else noticed vintage prices dropping. I have on POTF
What do you all think?
Scott Janish
Positive Images Private Fitness wrote:
Has anyone noticed that there is alot less interest in vintage stuff
> coins in particular. I just picked up a Boba Fett, Anakin Skywalker,
Wow, what a deal! I still need Fett plus 3 other hard mailaways...and
> ask me. There were 4 category V coins on Ebay recently and none of them
Well, I got a Hoth Stormtrooper Coin on ebay a couple of weeks ago(probably
Scott
Positive Images Private Fitness
> Scott Janish wrote:
My thoughts exactly Scott. When you mentioned this to me in email a
Michael Mierzwa
> I think you are also misinterperting where I am coming from as well. My
That is BS:
1) I don't eat fish. In fact, I do think fish stinks (besides I think
That is the truth. You need to learn to accept the fact that people can
Similarly I am a football and baseball fan. I hate the Dallas Cowboys
2) You claim that I'm a new collector. How the hell do you know this?
In fact, I don't recognize too many of your own posts. So what if I
3) You claimed that people who have not bought expensive sealed Death
I restored a 1967 Mercury Cougar. It was a standard model. It is what
These are newsgroups. People can express their opinions. My opinion
> And I have no problem with people expressing their opinion, but I would
I'm not entering a tirade because you mispelled my name. I'm entering
That fact that you mispelled my name, shows that you did not bother to
The fact that you misquoted me (in quotes mind you, which is done to
The fact that you did all of this over my expressing my own personal
I'm now convinced you are not going to bother to look back over what you
Ask John Wooten if he thinks I was directing my comment at him. Or ask
Michael Mierzwa
Michael Mierzwa
> Salfamily wrote:
I think Bubba Fett has a point with the too defensive thing.
I imagine if I was to be offered a Coke-Cola at a resteraunt and I said,
I know that only *1* person is currently reacting that way. But I've
You most often see this with the "you are new here" comeback. Sometimes
It is great to get reactions, but I think it is distruptive to get
Michael Mierzwa
Michael Mierzwa
> Has anyone noticed that there is alot less interest in vintage stuff
Not too many I would expect. :( Generally there is a misconception
As a buyer, I'm seeing less and less vintage pieces. I used to be able
> > coins in particular. I just picked up a Boba Fett, Anakin Skywalker,
> Wow, what a deal! I still need Fett plus 3 other hard mailaways...and
Hmmm, the coins (which I've casually considered collecting) have
Michael Mierzwa
Salfamily
>I think Bubba Fett has a point with the too defensive thing.
>I imagine if I was to be offered a Coke-Cola at a resteraunt and I said,
Maybe. But I think you're underestimating how religious some of the people on
And there is a difference between simply stating an opinion like "personally,
>I know that only *1* person is currently reacting that way. But I've
Exactly. My point is, regardless of who offended who, or who is being too
Overall, this NG seems healthy to me--there are many long-timers, and new
So, can we puhhlease stop beating this issue to death and get back to business?
ron
rlcox
> I generally lurk here because I find this group to be very stuffy and
I'm afraid I have to disagree. I've been on the ng for a long time (relatively
> but I can't say the same for the regular/outspoken posters here. People
While you are certainly entitled to your opinion, I really don't know who this
> I've said it before and i will say it again; I know the reasons for
well, fine, and personally I tend to agree with you. Well, not that it's
> Bubba Bo Bob Fett- who had nothing fun to write here because this group
Well, if you're so bothered by the group, why not take steps to change it?
Richard
rlcox
> So, has anyone else noticed vintage prices dropping. I have on POTF
Personally, I've had good luck selling coins altely. Nevertheless, I think
Richard
Michael Mierzwa
> Salfamily wrote:
You are right. I do underestimate. And people have a right to be so
As for the Coke/Pepsi analogy, I think it works fine.
Consider this newsgroup to be a soft drink lovers convention. Not a
This newsgroup is a vintage collecting newsgroup. It is for MIB
> And there is a difference between simply stating an opinion like "personally,
I agree that phrasing is important. And to go to a COKE only convention
However, when you are at a general convention you can express your
> Exactly. My point is, regardless of who offended who, or who is being too
Although there are true trolls that come by. :( But somehow their
> So, can we puhhlease stop beating this issue to death and get back to business?
Sounds good. My observation is that the vintage stuff at shows is
Michael Mierzwa
tfpriceguide
> I'm now convinced you are not going to bother to look back over what you
See I continue to think that this is were the problem lies, you can't accept
> Personally folks who know me, know that I pride
If you can't take an attack, then why post. If you can't understand that
>I never condemned anybody here ... save for my request that
Credit where credit is due? What??? Can't you understand that I can interrpert
As for the personal pride issuse, can you let go of your ego long enough to
starscrm
> Personally, I've had good luck selling coins altely. Nevertheless, I think
Personally I think that the hype surrounding a lot of Star Wars items have
later
Michael Mierzwa
> As for the personal pride issuse, can you let go of your ego long enough to
That is the real shame then.
I've told you many times to look back at it and that I wasn't calling
And I think it is YOUR pride that prevents you from admitting that your
The point of newsgroups is to foster discussion and exchange
If you are truely closed minded to the point that "there isn't much" I
Do you care to instruct to the newsgroup any of my other thoughts? And
Michael Mierzwa
Click here for part 4 of this thread.
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 09:58:51 -0700
From: Michael Mierzwa
> and this whole 'never removed from box' craze is just stupid, unless there
> is some type of window that allows yout o see what is inside.
rigs MIMSB is open them. :) Yes, my "investment" disappears. But
there isn't really a market on mini rigs.
a vintage Jabba and throne. But they were asking $75 for a MIMSB line
art catalog box. I'm waiting for a MISB (non-Mint box) Jabba for less.
Or I'd be happy with a Mint Complete Jabba playset minus crumb who I
have already.
something 100% different of what I said even after I told you otherwise
and ASKED you to look it up. :(
> > BTW I never called MISB collecting silly, and frankly I think you do
> > your own position a great deal of discredit by implying I suggested
> > that.
> > My advice, be careful who you make an example of.
> collectors who really have seemingly have no experience with boxed items and
> should be the last to criticize anyone. If you were reluctant and then did
> not pay $75 for a sealed Jabba, then how can you comment about anyone
> spending $1000 for a sealed Death Star.
Troop Transporter in box.
said.
bought a non-line art one at the same show for $20!!!! He told me as I
was looking at the line art box.
collectors do not know this, but I do.
are coming in and mispelling my name and claiming I said things I NEVER
said. :( That is very wrong. You should be the last person to start
telling collectors who and what they are if you can't get names and
quotes straight.
Oct 21 1998
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting.vintage
> toy is mintymint and the parts were still in their baggies. This
> couldn't be that hard to find, could it? Did I luck out?
the pictures on it, apparently these dealers thought it was worth $75.
They thought it was from a place like Sears, but I think BEST's toy
department also has the line-art boxes. My Dagobah Playset is a hybrid
as is my ESB Falcon box. I saved those two boxes since 1980. :)
Center mint perfect.
Oct 21 1998
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting.vintage
> the box is stupid"
here is again:
about how I collect boxed items and open them.
of different between thinking an idea is stupid and thinking that is
something that you don't like or "stinks".
Stars, much less have I said anything about people who leave their items
sealed. John knows that I respect him, and I've told him that via email
and I think in the chat room several times.
people do. I did express my own opinion of what *I* do and like.
didn't read my post.
go back and read my post over, you continued to say whatever the hell
you wanted in order to prove your point ... a sign that you still
haven't read my post.
you have a problem with people expressing their own personal opinions,
then I don't know how many times it will take for people to ask you to
read the post for you to do so. :(
Oct 21 1998
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting.vintage
> I saved those two boxes since 1980. :)
images and line-art on them. Those two playsets, as well as others--Death Star,
DV Stardestroyer, Ewok Village, etc.--had heftier boxes, due to the heavier
weight of the toys. The photo graphics for these boxes were printed on sheets,
which were then glued directly to the boxes. This is opposed to something like
the standard Jabba boxes, which had the graphics printed directly onto the thin
cardboard.
the boxes for the DV SD and Falcon, for instance, feature all-over printing
rather than pasted-on graphics. The all-over black surface (there aren't any
white areas of naked cardboard) of these boxes make them pretty
distinctive-looking.
Oct 22 1998
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting.vintage
> collectors who really have seemingly have no experience with boxed items and
> should be the last to criticize anyone. If you were reluctant and then did
> not pay $75 for a sealed Jabba, then how can you comment about anyone
> spending $1000 for a sealed Death Star.
a collectibles dealer for almost 20. I have been active colelcting action
figures since 1993 and I am very familiar with evry type of collector that
is out there and why they do it. That does not mean that I have to agree
with it.
arrogant most of the time and also quite unfriendly to outsiders. But that
is just my experience. Trading with various people here has been great,
but I can't say the same for the regular/outspoken posters here. People
here seem to be too defensive about the way they collect.
collecting NRFB, but I still think it is stupid when you ahve no way of
seeing what is inside the box.
just seems to suck the fun out of me
Oct 22 1998
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting.vintage
> you have a problem with people expressing their own personal opinions,
> then I don't know how many times it will take for people to ask you to
> read the post for you to do so. :(
intial post merely discussed you and Bubba Fett as outspoken new collectors
who had seemingly come out against collecting boxed stuff. Maybe I
interperted your post incorrectly, maybe I didn't... To me, saying leaving
something in the box "stinks" is kind of in direct conflict what a lot of
boxed collectors are interested in, and to me sort of seemed a dismissal of
sealed collecors, who id a lot of us more interested in the box then the toys
inside. That's all. And to me saying something "stinks" is sort of condemning
my collecting practices.
appreciate that in the future that people like your self discuss what is being
said and not enter in to paragraph long tirades against me because I spelled
your name wrong.
e
Oct 22 1998
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting.vintage
> arrogant most of the time and also quite unfriendly to outsiders. But that
> is just my experience. Trading with various people here has been great,
> but I can't say the same for the regular/outspoken posters here. People
> here seem to be too defensive about the way they collect.
Some could say that this group becomes more a bout of competition that a
discussion, but I think you have a lot of persoinalities here who are very
dedicated to their collection and such a hard-edge comes more out of
dedication than arrogance and coldness to outsiders.
> collecting NRFB, but I still think it is stupid when you ahve no way of
> seeing what is inside the box.
interest wwho wants it sealed, but in my case I love the boxes so I would
like them in as close to storestock as possible
Oct 22 1998
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting.vintage
>arrogant most of the time and also quite unfriendly to outsiders. But that
>is just my experience. Trading with various people here has been great,
>but I can't say the same for the regular/outspoken posters here. People
*always* been arguments. I regularly post here, and I find a lot of worthwhile
information among many of the other regulars' posts. Sure, there are
disputes--there are even instances where it seems like some regulars who have
similar interests gang up on someone--but, dude, if you can't take debate on a
controversial point, then don't post it at all. Seriously. Arguing is part of
what this is all about.
this group. If you call them "silly" or imply that they're overtly capitalist,
you're going to get a reaction. And if you do get a reaction--big deal.
>just seems to suck the fun out of me
questions, or respond constructively to someone's query. And if someone argues
with you, you're free to argue back. To sit idly by and sulk about how poor you
think the group is, or worse, to post something antagonistic and then say "I'm
not going to post here anymore--you guys are mean," is pointless.
spent a large chunk of their lives involved in the hobby, and who have strong
feelings about it. You can get nearly any vintage question you have--and some
you don't have :^)--answered through this newsgroup. It would be a shame not to
participate simply because you get into a spat with someone.
Oct 22 1998
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting.vintage
everyone's input on whether or not they think vintage prices are going
down and why.
vs. loose or whatever, make a new thread.
coins in particular. I just picked up a Boba Fett, Anakin Skywalker,
and AT-AT coin for $240 shipped. That is a big drop in prices if you
ask me. There were 4 category V coins on Ebay recently and none of them
ever received the 99.99 minimum bid the seller had placed on them. Not
too long ago, these coins would have sold for at least $120-150.
Oct 22 1998
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting.vintage
> So, has anyone else noticed vintage prices dropping. I have on POTF
in general? This, IMO, is what is causeing prices to go down. I set
up at a toy show last weekend with a bunch of vintage stuff. I didn't
sell much of it... I even had a few POTF figs at reasonable prices and
only received 3-4 inquiries. A year of so ago when the SEs were out I
couldn't keep stuff on the table. The guy next to me had lots of primo
pieces, nice cared 12 backs and POTF, very nice boxed 12", boxed ships
and playsets and he only sold a couple of pieces. His prices were
reasonable and open to negotiation. Go figure. There was alot more
interest in new Kenner stuff and beanies... I wonder how many people
will come back to vintage now that the whole Fan Club exclusives have
pissed them off.
> and AT-AT coin for $240 shipped. That is a big drop in prices if you
I want to get them for this price. ;)
> ever received the 99.99 minimum bid the seller had placed on them. Not
> too long ago, these coins would have sold for at least $120-150.
the same auction) for $125. I was happy since that is what it cost when I
started collecting coins about 2 years ago and I had seen it sell for as high
as $160. I wish the bottem would totally fall out of the coin market. Yeah,
my "investment" is lost, but then I could afford to have 2 sets to put in a
frame, front and back.
Oct 22 1998
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting.vintage
> I wish the bottem would totally fall out of the coin market. Yeah,
> my "investment" is lost, but then I could afford to have 2 sets to put in a
> frame, front and back.
couple of weeks ago, the wheels started spinning. Wouldn't it be great
to have a framed set.
Oct 22 1998
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting.vintage
> intial post merely discussed you and Bubba Fett as outspoken new collectors
> who had seemingly come out against collecting boxed stuff. Maybe I
> interperted your post incorrectly, maybe I didn't... To me, saying leaving
> something in the box "stinks" is kind of in direct conflict what a lot of
> boxed collectors are interested in, and to me sort of seemed a dismissal of
> sealed collecors, who id a lot of us more interested in the box then the toys
> inside. That's all. And to me saying something "stinks" is sort of condemning
> my collecting practices.
they make great pets). When I express my opinion that I think fish
stinks and therefore I will not eat it, I am focused internally. I am
not condemning yours and anybody else's right to eat fish.
have their own opinions and express them without condemning or
campaigning against other people's habbits.
and Atlanta Braves, that does not mean I condemn folks who like them.
In fact, as an undergrad I would bet dinners on the Steelers/Cowboys
games (at the time I was buying a friend a dinner once a season). ;)
You are too quick to judge people. I've stated that I am not a new
collector and yet you continue to imply that I am. Are you calling me a
liar? What makes you right to tell people they are new or not.
prejudge you and call you a troll? I doubt you would like that.
Stars should not comment on collecting boxed items. That too is B.S.
you'd call low end for Cougars. However, this doesn't mean I don't have
either an opinion nor knowledge of the 1968 Dan Gurny Specials. The
Gurny Specials were loaded with more special features than a bird has
feathers. In fact, between 1965-1967 the 1968 model was a racing car.
was very inwardly focused and IMHO it was civil. I said (which you
misquoted me at least three times after several people asked you to look
back) that "I agree that leaving it in the box stinks. ..."
> appreciate that in the future that people like your self discuss what is being
> said and not enter in to paragraph long tirades against me because I spelled
> your name wrong.
it, because you CONTINUE to purposefully misrepresent my opinions and
view point. Purposefully!
fully read my post. You simply blurted down incorrect names and facts,
for your own personal agenda ... whatever the hell it is.
imply that you checked literally what I said) after people including
myself told you that you were incorrect in manipulative.
opinion (much like my opinion that fish stinks, that the Steelers are
great, or that coffee is god awful) shows that you DO IN FACT have
problems with people expressing their opinions. In fact, you've gone
ahead and CONTINUED to tell me not only what you think I mean (which I
assure you, you are wrong), but you've tried to support your theories by
casting me off as some new collector. The fact is that I have been
collecting for some time new and vintage items. If you'd bother to
actually admit that you misquoted me and made a mistake, you might also
notice that Scott Janish pointed out that I've bought vintage stuff from
him regularly (I count five times, since I've been counting times). I
regularly go to Bay Area toy shows and not to buy new stuff. I've
bought from several other dealers and also long time collectors on
RASS.*. And I've bought stuff from Toy Shop Collectors.
have done and said, because I'm sure your personal pride is at stake.
However, you did misquote me and tried to act like I called other
collectors stupid. Personally folks who know me, know that I pride
myself on being an opponent to personal attacks ... that is why I
believe you owe me that apology (which I do not expect, because you
would be admitting that you were wrong even after a couple people told
you so). I never condemned anybody here ... save for my request that
you should give credit where credit is due and also you should get over
your own pride and drop this B.S. that somebody saying they don't like
something is an attempt to condemn or attack people.
Buba Fett if he felt my post was a "me too" for his own? Or when in
doubt, you could always ... I don't know ... ask the author instead of
telling him what he said.
Oct 22 1998
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting.vintage
> The fact of the matter is that there are a lot of MIB collectors who frequent
> this group. If you call them "silly" or imply that they're overtly capitalist,
> you're going to get a reaction. And if you do get a reaction--big deal.
no thanks, I want a Pepsi, I hate Coke. If the people sitting at my
table stand up and say, "I can't believe you would attack me and call me
stupid because I like Coke!", isn't that the first sign of being too
defensive?
seen essentially the same type of defensive pride and a bit of elitism
present in *all* newsgroups.
you even see a long time reader or collector saying that to some other
long time reader or collector. And when they start writing so-and-so
said "Exactly this", but when the exactly this was really "more like
this", then you really have to step back and wonder how can things get
back on track?
people who continually misquote people. Sometimes these people are
trolls (three ever popular ones come to mind here). Other times (and I
think that is the case in this thread) you are seeing 1 collector let
his own pride get in the way.
Oct 22 1998
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting.vintage
> in general? This, IMO, is what is causeing prices to go down. I set
> up at a toy show last weekend with a bunch of vintage stuff. I didn't
> sell much of it... I even had a few POTF figs at reasonable prices and
> only received 3-4 inquiries. A year of so ago when the SEs were out I
> couldn't keep stuff on the table. The guy next to me had lots of primo
> pieces, nice cared 12 backs and POTF, very nice boxed 12", boxed ships
> and playsets and he only sold a couple of pieces. His prices were
> reasonable and open to negotiation. Go figure. There was alot more
> interest in new Kenner stuff and beanies... I wonder how many people
> will come back to vintage now that the whole Fan Club exclusives have
> pissed them off.
that the vintage line costs too much to complete. The irony is that the
vintage line is static, while the new line now has a high price tag, is
harder to find the hotter items, and is growing.
to pick up Ackbars at each show for $3. :) Somewhere I took a photo of
my legion of Mon Calamari, but I've not developed it yet. The only
Ackbar's I see at shows now are either the mail away from Revenge of the
Jedi or a carded ROTJ C7 for $30 (which is about $18 too much IMHO).
> > and AT-AT coin for $240 shipped. That is a big drop in prices if you
> I want to get them for this price. ;)
actually remained stable in price, but dropped in supply. I'm hard
pressed to find one selling for $5. They move incredibly fast at that
price for the common ones.
Oct 22 1998
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting.vintage
>no thanks, I want a Pepsi, I hate Coke. If the people sitting at my
>table stand up and say, "I can't believe you would attack me and call me
>stupid because I like Coke!", isn't that the first sign of being too
>defensive?
this group are about their MIB toys, or whatever else it is they collect :^). I
don't think your Coke/Pepsi analogy works too well either. If, for instance,
someone was to go into a Coke-lovers convention and declare their love for
Pepsi, I think the resulting reaction would more closely match up to what we're
seeing here with the MIB folks. Saying such a thing is deliberately
antagonistic and it provokes reaction.
I'm not attracted to your sister," and saying something like "your sister is
ugly." Phrasing counts in communication. If I came on RASSM and said "Star Wars
is ridiculous. Its sad that the only thing SW fans care about are special
effects," whether it was my opinion or not, some people would get uppity.
>seen essentially the same type of defensive pride and a bit of elitism
>present in *all* newsgroups.
defensive, its pointless to ditch this newsgroup simply because you get in a
tiff. I've posted a lot of strong opinions on this group and I've never run
into someone who was being such a meany that I've felt forced to leave
altogether.
people are always coming in that *do* find it worthwhile and who contribute
constructively. Of course, that doesn't excuse the inaccuracy of some
statements, like the ones recently made about Michael M., but I think we can
get over such things without resorting to dropping out.
Oct 22 1998
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting.vintage
> arrogant most of the time and also quite unfriendly to outsiders. But that
> is just my experience.
speaking) and I feel a great sense of community here.
> here seem to be too defensive about the way they collect.
is directed at. Sounds like the old "elitism" label again. Funny how the
elitists are the ones who tend to be most vocal and help others the most.
> collecting NRFB, but I still think it is stupid when you ahve no way of
> seeing what is inside the box.
stupid, but that I don't prefer sealed. HOWEVER, I don't criticise others for
collecting differently. Collecting sealed is just as stupid as collecting
anything else. Collect what you like. Just because I collect carded figures
doesn't mean I look down upon loose collectors. Hell, I started out collecting
loose.
> just seems to suck the fun out of me
Lurking and/or complaining surely won't improve the place, IMHO.
Oct 22 1998
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting.vintage
> coins in particular. I just picked up a Boba Fett, Anakin Skywalker,
> and AT-AT coin for $240 shipped. That is a big drop in prices if you
> ask me. There were 4 category V coins on Ebay recently and none of them
> ever received the 99.99 minimum bid the seller had placed on them. Not
> too long ago, these coins would have sold for at least $120-150.
the supply and demand on coins, at least, is being met. Certainly prices
*generally* on vintage are cooling, but I don't feel that they're really
dropping. Plus, you're going to have those few items, the real grails, that
will stabalize or creep upward slowly. These I don't really see falling.
Sealed Death Star and POTF Anakin come to mind. I have noticed POTF yak
cooling a *bit*.
Oct 22 1998
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting.vintage
> Maybe. But I think you're underestimating how religious some of the people on
> this group are about their MIB toys, or whatever else it is they collect :^). I
> don't think your Coke/Pepsi analogy works too well either. If, for instance,
> someone was to go into a Coke-lovers convention and declare their love for
> Pepsi, I think the resulting reaction would more closely match up to what we're
> seeing here with the MIB folks. Saying such a thing is deliberately
> antagonistic and it provokes reaction.
.... and defensive as well. Too many time people are quick to judge all
toy collectors.
Coke convention, and not a Pepsi convention. Naturally people will take
both sides of the Tastes Great/Less Filling debate at such a
convention. However both opinions have a place there.
collectors. And it is also for Mint Loose collectors. To express one
opinion is only to be expected here, just like at a soft drink lovers
convention you will find Coke Drones and Pepsi Drones ... and probably
some Dr. Pepper people too.
> I'm not attracted to your sister," and saying something like "your sister is
> ugly." Phrasing counts in communication. If I came on RASSM and said "Star Wars
> is ridiculous. Its sad that the only thing SW fans care about are special
> effects," whether it was my opinion or not, some people would get uppity.
and yell "Pepsi rules" is the very definition of trolling. Just as your
example of posting to RASSm would be.
opinion. In fact, if people didn't this place would become more a
marketplace.
> defensive, its pointless to ditch this newsgroup simply because you get in a
> tiff. I've posted a lot of strong opinions on this group and I've never run
> into someone who was being such a meany that I've felt forced to leave
> altogether.
comments don't sting as much when we know somebody isn't trolling for
trollings sake.
becoming harder to find, but the prices aren't increasing.
Oct 22 1998
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting.vintage
> have done and said, because I'm sure your personal pride is at stake.
> However, you did misquote me and tried to act like I called other
> collectors stupid.
the fact that someone may read and interrpert your post differently than you
want them too. I have no problem with what you are saying or where your
opinion is, my problem is that you can't seem to see that people go on what
they have been given and form their ideas from that. To me it is not too much
of a stretch to think that when someone posts: I agree that keeping something
in the box stinks ., that they are echoing the past sentiments of other
posters, which expressed a strong disdain for boxed items. My reply was
taking your post in that context. Wheteher that is what you meant, I don't
know, but my intial impression was that you were dismissing boxed items and
in a way I STILL think that is what you meant. I think you will agree that
your interest in the toy is not with the box and keeping it in as pristine
shape as possible but more with the toy, opening and having the best jabba as
possible.
> myself on being an opponent to personal attacks ... that is why I
> believe you owe me that apology (which I do not expect, because you
> would be admitting that you were wrong even after a couple people told
> you so).
people aren't going to neccesarily understand your posts and can't handle
when the take things in a different context you shouldn't say anything.
> you should give credit where credit is due and also you should get over
> your own pride and drop this B.S. that somebody saying they don't like
> something is an attempt to condemn or attack people.
things the way I see them from the context in which they are being phrased.
I think you are the one, who can't understand that people are going to
interrpert things differently and read what you say differently.
not post a reply and end this discussion on the note that we agree to
diagree? You may think, others may think that I misread your post, but I
still tink that my reply was valid in the context that I was reading it, and
there isn't much you can say to change that
Oct 22 1998
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting.vintage
> the supply and demand on coins, at least, is being met. Certainly prices
> *generally* on vintage are cooling, but I don't feel that they're really
> dropping. Plus, you're going to have those few items, the real grails, that
> will stabalize or creep upward slowly. These I don't really see falling.
> Sealed Death Star and POTF Anakin come to mind. I have noticed POTF yak
> cooling a *bit*.
been averted due to the great stides '80's lines and wrestling items have
taken in the toy marketplace. Star Wars is kind of playing second fiddle to
the heat that lines like Transformers and Thundercats are getting, and star
wars prices ARE dropping to reflect shrinking market demand. Star Wars right
now is just not that "hot". There isn't the demand from kids, collectors and
speculators for new and old items that was apparent during the Special
Editions. Many young collectors (late high school to college age),have no
interest in Star Wars instead seeking the toys they grew up with, and thus
there are fewer new collectors coming in to buy mid range items and most
advanced collectors have everything expect a few rare pieces and aren't
buying up stuff like POTF and loose veichles. Truth is that a lot of the
demand for Star Wars has been filled and that dealers are dropping prices to
accomadate for the lack of demand. Will it recover? I don't know, it just
seems that Star Wars has had such a long ride at the top that it would be
natural that it would cool off. Much of Star Wars recovery as a number one
toy line depends on how the Prequels go. If they suck, Star Wars is really
stuck in a rut, but if they rule then demand will be hieghteded again.
e
Oct 22 1998
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting.vintage
> not post a reply and end this discussion on the note that we agree to
> diagree? You may think, others may think that I misread your post, but I
> still tink that my reply was valid in the context that I was reading it, and
> there isn't much you can say to change that
people stuipd. You however cling to this idea that I was.
own personal feelings stood in the way then and now.
information.
can say, then there really isn't much a point in communicating with you.
please, continue to write Michael Mierzwa said "this exactly" even when
my exact quotes are *different* and especially when you don't bother to
ask me what I meant.
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