rude-boy
Oct 4 1998
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting.vintage
I just wanted to get anyone's opinion about vintage common Star Wars
toys. It seems to me that the prices are going way way down on
practically everything even MIB playsets/ships, except carded figures
in C9++ shape, and rare non-mass produced items. Anyone else notice
this..?
jeff
Michael Mierzwa
Oct 5 1998
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting.vintage
>rude-boy wrote:
> I just wanted to get anyone's opinion about vintage common Star Wars
> toys. It seems to me that the prices are going way way down on
> practically everything even MIB playsets/ships, except carded figures
> in C9++ shape, and rare non-mass produced items. Anyone else notice
> this..?
Yes and no.
The low ranged loose figures haven't gone down, because they've been at
great prices for years. It ironically is often easier and cheaper to
find vintage figures than some POTF2 loose figures. That would be the
"no" part.
As for the cost of ships/playsets/and other mid-ranged ticket items I've
seen many pieces going for less than two years ago. However some items
like the B-wing figther haven't budged a bit.
I also noticed that fewer vintage pieces are being sold. :(
What I think part of what you are seeing is a drop in the mid range
stuff to reflect the fact that most people have many of these pieces and
thus aren't eager to buy seconds.
The *other* part is I expect that like me and many others you might have
been so accustomed to seeing some items go for way more than "we" would
have expected years ago that the shock is over and thus we see bargin
prices.
Just a thought or two.
Michael Mierzwa
starscrm
Oct 5 1998
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting.vintage
> What I think part of what you are seeing is a drop in the mid range
> stuff to reflect the fact that most people have many of these pieces and
> thus aren't eager to buy seconds.
It is my feeling that collectors just arent' going after the midrange type of
pieces anymore, like say a tie fighter in star wars box or an esb carded han
hoth. It seems right now with a lot of people are going after the rarities and
nothing else. Don't understand why, neccesarily, but it seems to be the story
everywhere.
Dndlnwne
Oct 5 1998
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting.vintage
I guess it depends what you're buying - I'm into the loose items, and I'm happy
to see that some of the recent hysteria has died down, and loose items are
reasonable again. (Happy to say that at a store where I'd become accustomed to
inflated prices, I managed to pick up my long-desired Amanaman for much less
than I figured I'd have to spend :) )
John
"You think the average Stormtrooper knows anything about installing a toilet
main? No. All they know is killing and white uniforms."
John Booth
Orlando, FL
Jakobius21
Oct 5 1998
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting.vintage
i have noticed this to. its all the new toys that are causing prices to go
down. people are busy buying up all the new toys causing demand for the vintage
toys to go down in the process.
Chris Georgoulias
Oct 5 1998
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting.vintage
> rude-boy wrote:
> I just wanted to get anyone's opinion about vintage common Star Wars
> toys. It seems to me that the prices are going way way down on
> practically everything even MIB playsets/ships, except carded figures
> in C9++ shape, and rare non-mass produced items. Anyone else notice
> this..?
Supply and demand. The large supply of common loose items means the price
will drop accordingly. Bad-condition and/or incomplete items fare pretty bad
in this market. So many toys were made and saved in the 1980's that they're
pretty prevalent.
Boxed toys were still saved pretty regularly and with the supply being so high
people are willing to wait for the best examples.
Dead mint carded figures are not so common and often command premium prices.
C7-C8.5 carded figures aren't tough to find thus the demand isn't too high
because people know they will find them around.
Non-mass produced items (especially Kenner related) tend to keep on going up
because the supply is pretty small compared with the number of people after them.
I guess this is how your typical market works without hype items to skew
perceptions of value and future worth. Beanie Babies, anyone?
-chris
Kevin Johnston
Oct 5 1998
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting.vintage
> Jakobius21 wrote:
> i have noticed this to. its all the new toys that are causing prices to go
> down. people are busy buying up all the new toys causing demand for the
> vintage toys to go down in the process.
I don't think it's that simple. IMO the market was hyped to unreasonable
heights about eighteen months-two years ago. It was *bound* to come down
again, new Kenner toys or no.
Kevin
starscrm
Oct 6 1998
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting.vintage
> Boxed toys were still saved pretty regularly and with the supply being so high
> people are willing to wait for the best examples.
There are a lot of loose in box veichles and playsets out there, but I don't
think that collector interest in mint, boxed & sealed or "like new" veichles
and accesories are merely just a result of a supple amount of lesser
examples. A sealed Death Star or a sealed Falcon are similar to a MOC
figure, in that they are untouched and unused examples. Collecting loose in
box vehicles is closer to collecting loose figures and cardbacks, than the
actual production pieces.
> Dead mint carded figures are not so common and often command premium prices.
> C7-C8.5 carded figures aren't tough to find thus the demand isn't too high
> because people know they will find them around.
Well, I think that right now a lot of people have C8 examlples of certain
figures and are looking to upgrade their collection. I wouldnt' say though
that there are too many C8 carded figures hanging around right now either.
The supply of carded Star Wars is trying up pretty quickly, and I think that
there are a lot of people who don't want to afford being too picky.
> I guess this is how your typical market works without hype items to skew
> perceptions of value and future worth. Beanie Babies, anyone?
I KNOW that during the Special Edition there was a lot of price gouging and a
widespread misconceptions amognst buyers and dealers about true demand and
value. The market though and current price levels did not grow out of that
time period and the demand spawned by those re-releases. The market for
vintage star wars developed out of true collector demand from 1989 on. The
market for these toys were only heightened temporarily by intense mainstream
demand, and should not have been expected to and have fallen when that
interest subsided, to the pre SE levels. I'm not sure I would call the SE's
"hype", for a limited time there were MANY people looking to take home a
piece of star wars and not all of it was dealer posturing but true, yet
temporary, demand. No one should have expected those levels to keep up like
they were in winter 97. Another big thing is the pressence of new toys. Many
would be vintage collectors have been satisfied with the new figures and
prices have remain stable because of there lack of pressence in the vintage
market.
later
e
Carl Kramer (RobotFan)
Oct 6 1998
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting.vintage
My theory is that the last few years we've seen people without any
interest in Star Wars, rummaging through their attics and basements
looking for old Star Wars toys, based on the sudden resurgence. People
see magazines and local news stories devoted to collecting toys (a
recent development) and decide to cash in on their own stowed away
goodies. They sift through boxes of toys that were put away for their
children 20 years ago and think for the first time in terms of treasure
over junk.
These long put away items then begin to flood the market.
Thanks to ebay and the internet, it has become apparent to savvy
collectors that items, once hard to come by, are becoming quite
plentiful. How many R2-D2 cookie jars show up on ebay every single
day? When you look that kind of volume, right in the face, it's hard to
justify a sizable expenditure, so the prices come down.
Carl Kramer
salfamily
Oct 6 1998
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting.vintage
> There are a lot of loose in box veichles and playsets out there, but I don't
> think that collector interest in mint, boxed & sealed or "like new" veichles
> and accesories are merely just a result of a supple amount of lesser
> examples. A sealed Death Star or a sealed Falcon are similar to a MOC
> figure, in that they are untouched and unused examples. Collecting loose in
> box vehicles is closer to collecting loose figures and cardbacks, than the
> actual production pieces.
I disagree. In the vast majority of cases, opening a carded figure
effectively destroys the package. You can also see the packaged items clearly
in the case of carded figures, whereas, with sealed vehicles, the contents
are firmly stuck inside. I've opened sealed playsets in the past (though I
don't assemble or open the interior baggies), simply to increase my enjoyment
of them, and I know others who have as well. I wouldn't open a carded figure.
I do agree that rarity alone doesn't determine sealed toy pricing--there are
a number of things which factor into that, one of them being collector demand
for "untouched" contents, as you mention--but I do think that rarity is the
primary drive. A sealed Death Star is worth so much, first and foremost,
because they are nearly impossible to locate, and not so much because the
contents are untouched. There are tons of sealed Jabba playsets, however, and
you can still find them very cheaply.
Sealed toys are trendy, plain and simple. I don't necessarily think there is
a really logical reason they're sought after *so much more* than opened toys
are, but they definitely are right now. "Sealed" has become the standard
against which most of the hobby judges the condition of its boxed toys.
ron
starscrm
Oct 6 1998
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting.vintage
> Sealed toys are trendy, plain and simple. I don't necessarily think there is
> a really logical reason they're sought after *so much more* than opened toys
> are, but they definitely are right now. "Sealed" has become the standard
> against which most of the hobby judges the condition of its boxed toys.
I don't think that sealed toys are necessarily "trendy", to me "trendy" sort
of demeans this movement towards and demand for sealed toys. Simple fact is
that mint sealed items look better than opened ones. There is just no
comparing the visual feel of a c-9/10 sealed or mint in box "new" item than
to one that has a box which has been sitting in someone's garage opened for
15 years. Most people will only collect c8.5-c10 carded figures, and most
loose in box or opened items usually have such a significant amount of
creases that would normally be unacceptable to these advanced carded
collectors. If you wouldn't accept a carded SW Hammerhead with three
noticeable creases in the card, why should you accept a Death Star with that
many more noticeble creases, nicks, etc. Collectors in general have become
more discriminating in regards to boxed conditon, because to be honest with
you half of the stuff out there looks like crap.
later
e
Justin Kerns
Oct 6 1998
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting.vintage
>15 years. Most people will only collect c8.5-c10 carded figures, and most
>loose in box or opened items usually have such a significant amount of
>creases that would normally be unacceptable to these advanced carded
>collectors. If you wouldn't accept a carded SW Hammerhead with three
I have to disagree here. I think there is a pretty decent supply of
opened C9 or better boxed items. I consider myself pretty picky, and I
have many C9 or better, complete with inserts, examples of boxed items. I
would grade many of them as nice as sealed,(typically meaning minor shelf
wear), and several still have "new" contents, meaning unassembled parts in
baggies etc.
I personally don't understand the infatuation with sealed stuff, but then
I believe there is a good supply of equal quality opened stuff out there.
Sealed items, as with C10 carded figures, typically command a premium.
The difference is, IMHO, that the difference between a C10 sealed box and
a C10 open box pales in comparison to the difference between a C10 figure
and a C8 figure. Besides, as Ron points out its a lot more fun to open
the box and look at the contents just as they appeared years ago when I
brought it home from the store.
Justin
the-ICON
Oct 6 1998
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting.vintage
I'm getting in late on this thread, so this may have been discussed, but
I've noticed POTF coin prices dropping. It is amazing what some of the
coins in the auctions are getting as high bids compared to what they
used to get.
Heath A Strickland
Oct 7 1998
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting.vintage
e should have added IMHO. Sure c10 boxes are better than c8 but
IMHO opened, put together ships displayed next to their opened
boxes look far better than just a sealed box.
I personally am waiting for the prices to go down furthur before
(and if) I begin collecting carded figures. Boxed ships are
cheap so I bough most of them.
Heath
Salfamily
Oct 7 1998
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting.vintage
>I have to disagree here. I think there is a pretty decent supply of
>opened C9 or better boxed items. I consider myself pretty picky, and I
>have many C9 or better, complete with inserts, examples of boxed items. I
>would grade many of them as nice as sealed,(typically meaning minor shelf
>wear), and several still have "new" contents, meaning unassembled parts in
>baggies etc.
>I personally don't understand the infatuation with sealed stuff, but then
>I believe there is a good supply of equal quality opened stuff out there.
>Sealed items, as with C10 carded figures, typically command a premium.
>The difference is, IMHO, that the difference between a C10 sealed box and
>a C10 open box pales in comparison to the difference between a C10 figure
>and a C8 figure. Besides, as Ron points out its a lot more fun to open
>the box and look at the contents just as they appeared years ago when I
>brought it home from the store.
My thoughts exactly. I'm talking about mint boxes with unused, untampered-with
toys vs. toys with boxes that are in the same condition but are "sealed",
meaning that they simply have a piece of tape across their openings. In such
cases, there really is no aesthetic advantage which the sealed toy has over the
opened one.
So why are sealed toys more desired? Like I originally said, there are a lot of
things which factor into this. I think a lot of it is novelty--its neat to own
a 20 year old toy that's never been touched--but I think a lot also has to do
with, for lack of a better word, fashion. The general perception around the
hobby these days is that sealed=better, even though that might not always be
the case.
ron
rlcox
Oct 7 1998
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting.vintage
> If you wouldn't accept a carded SW Hammerhead with three
> noticeable creases in the card, why should you accept a Death Star with that
> many more noticeble creases, nicks, etc.
For me, there's a difference. With a carded figure, you can actually see the
toy. With a sealed playset/vehicle, well, for me that's just a heavy box. Ho
hum. I'd much prefer NRFB to MISB. But carded figures are still cooler. :^)
Richard
starscrm
Oct 7 1998
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting.vintage
> I think there is a pretty decent supply of opened C9 or better boxed items.
> I consider myself pretty picky, and I have many C9 or better, complete with
> inserts, examples of boxed items. I would grade many of them as nice as
> sealed,(typically meaning minor shelf wear), and several still have "new"
> contents, meaning unassembled parts in baggies etc.
My problem is not with open "like new" mint condition toys but with loose in
the box items or even like new items in crappy boxes. To me I think "sealed"
sort of breathes of this case-fresh crispness that you can't get through a
loose in box piece and sometimes an opened piece, but then again you can have
a beat looking sealed piece as well.
> I personally don't understand the infatuation with sealed stuff, but then
> I believe there is a good supply of equal quality opened stuff out there.
> Sealed items, as with C10 carded figures, typically command a premium.
> The difference is, IMHO, that the difference between a C10 sealed box and
> a C10 open box pales in comparison to the difference between a C10 figure
> and a C8 figure.
That was never my point-someone said that they don't understand the appeal of
sealed stuff and I merely added my opinion why sealed stuff and mint "new"
stuff is generally more sought after than beat items or loose in box stuff. I
personally perfer sealed items. Star Wars flaps tend to stick out all over
the place when they are not sealed (At, At , Ewok Village, etc.)and look ,to
me at least, pretty hokey at times. For me personally I want to have items
that look as much like store stock as much as possible and sealed items
usually fit the bill.
e
woods01
Oct 8 1998
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting.vintage
> "Carl Kramer (RobotFan)" wrote:
> Thanks to ebay and the internet, it has become apparent to savvy
> collectors that items, once hard to come by, are becoming quite
> plentiful. How many R2-D2 cookie jars show up on ebay every single
> day? When you look that kind of volume, right in the face, it's hard to
> justify a sizable expenditure, so the prices come down.
How about POTF 1985? Is there really any reason to call these rare or hard to
find? Be it loose or carded. There are many many stories of late 80s and
early 90s collectors getting or passing up huge amounts of potf. And I think
the past few years have brought all of that stuff out. Not counting a few of
the rarer repacks like Yoda or foreign stuff, finding c-9 carded potf is
easy. I even think that its easier to find mint loose potf than some of the
regular line mint and loose. I think the only exception would be r2 popup
because all r2s have that nagging sticker problem. And the mighty yak-face
has been arriving in the U.S. like pilgrams for the past few years. Loose Yak
is no longer an impossible find like it use to be.
Also I don't notice as many dealer ads asking for potf as there was about 2
or 3 years ago, instead dealers are asking for prototypes, double telescopes
and the really big ticket moc stuff (vinyl jawa, 21-back boba, potf
yak/anakin, etc.)
-John (who used to think loose luke stormtroopers would peak at $75) >br>
Salfamily
Oct 8 1998
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting.vintage
>My problem is not with open "like new" mint condition toys but with loose in
>the box items or even like new items in crappy boxes. To me I think "sealed"
>sort of breathes of this case-fresh crispness that you can't get through a
>loose in box piece and sometimes an opened piece, but then again you can have
>a beat looking sealed piece as well.
Oh, yeah, I agree on all counts. And, in part, this is what I mean when I say
that the infatuation for sealed stuff is a kind of fashion. Regardless of what
the condition is, its easy to exploit the "sealed" status, and dealers know
this. It thus becomes an empty distinction, which is primarily used to sell
things. No doubt, the want for sealed stuff originated in people looking for
case-fresh, mint items, but its since become a little hollow, IMO. I mean, you
could probably get more these days for a c8 sealed X-Wing than you could for a
c9+ open version of the same toy.
>That was never my point-someone said that they don't understand the appeal of
>sealed stuff and I merely added my opinion why sealed stuff and mint "new"
>stuff is generally more sought after than beat items or loose in box stuff. I
I've often sought out "sealed" items as well, because I know they're more
likely to be in new condition. But like I've said, I've opened some of those
items on occasion as well, because I want to play with the toy.
>personally perfer sealed items. Star Wars flaps tend to stick out all over
>the place when they are not sealed (At, At , Ewok Village, etc.)and look ,to
>me at least, pretty hokey at times. For me personally I want to have items
>that look as much like store stock as much as possible and sealed items
>usually fit the bill.
I agree. I think most people feel that way.
ron
John Wooten
Oct 8 1998
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting.vintage
> Salfamily wrote:
>My thoughts exactly. I'm talking about mint boxes with unused, untampered-with
>toys vs. toys with boxes that are in the same condition but are "sealed",
>meaning that they simply have a piece of tape across their openings. In such
>cases, there really is no aesthetic advantage which the sealed toy has over the
>opened one.
I agree. I try to get stuff in as close to new condition as possible. I used
to just look for "sealed" but as I looked longer, I realized there was a lot
of nrfb stuff to be had too, and, in a way, it is a lot cooler to be able to
see what you have. I have a nrfb or "new in box" Death Star that is just so
damn cool to see unassembled/unused, it's probably one of, if not *the*, piece
I like the most in my collection. I had wanted a sealed one for a long time,
but at the prices those command, I was very happy to settle for a nrfb one,
and I think I enjoy it more. Now, I really only get sealed if it's a good
deal. After realizing what Ron said, it's just not entirely worth the premium
(although I do think having a sealed sample or two and opening them at some
time is really satisfying too).
>So why are sealed toys more desired? Like I originally said, there are a lot of
>things which factor into this. I think a lot of it is novelty--its neat to own
>a 20 year old toy that's never been touched--but I think a lot also has to do
>with, for lack of a better word, fashion. The general perception around the
>hobby these days is that sealed=better, even though that might not always be
>the case.
One thing I love when I look through ebay is when I see: SEALED Stormtrooper
Room Alarm! or NRFB POTF2 TIE FIGHTER!....it cracks me up :^)
John
Salfamily
Oct 8 1998
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting.vintage
>How about POTF 1985? Is there really any reason to call these rare or hard to
>find? Be it loose or carded.
Well, yeah--I don't think there's much doubt that there are far fewer Baradas
or Imperial Dignitaries than there are, say, Bespin Guards
I wouldn't necessarily say they're "rare," but, relatively, they're more scarce
than the figures from previous series.
> There are many many stories of late 80s and early 90s collectors getting or
> passing up huge amounts of potf.
Much of this is due to large amounts of this product being dumped during times
in the mid to late 80s. There was definitely a lot of it left over that stores
tried to get rid of in some way or another, and there were many chances to pick
the stuff up cheap. This partially accounts for the sizeable stock of mint,
carded POTF that is still out there. However, if you talk to enough people who
were collecting at that time, you'll find some that actually had trouble
finding select POTF figures at retail when they were first released. In some
regions, I think that much of the product was re-routed to discount stores or
dealers before it made it to the larger chain stores.
>Yoda or foreign stuff, finding c-9 carded potf is easy.
Oh, definitely. There is certainly no shortage of carded POTF. And I agree with
your earlier statement that more of it seems to be coming out of the woodwork.
I wouldn't be surprised to see some of the more common POTF (not Yoda or Han
Trench, etc.) stay at fairly stable values over the next few years, or even
come down a little in some cases.
Also keep in mind that much of the demand surrounding carded POTF is very
condition oriented. Mint, non-yellowed examples are only getting tougher to
find.
> I even think that its easier to find mint loose potf than some of the
>regular line mint and loose.
Nah. I think its easy to perceive the situation as such, simply because the
POTF are of a higher profile, and are often displayed prominently in ads or at
shows. Consequently, we notice those figures with a greater regularity. There
isn't much doubt in my mind that loose, mint ROTJ, ESB and SW figures are
around in much greater numbers.
> And the mighty yak-face has been arriving in the U.S. like pilgrams for the past
> few years. Loose Yak is no longer an impossible find like it use to be.
POTF and, of course, Yak Face, were available in fairly good amounts over seas.
Much of that foreign stock made its way to the States during the time that
loose figure collecting was scorching hot, and loose POTF was in high demand.
> Also I don't notice as many dealer ads asking for potf as there was about 2
>or 3 years ago, instead dealers are asking for prototypes, double telescopes
>and the really big ticket moc stuff (vinyl jawa, 21-back boba, potf
>yak/anakin, etc.)
Yep. This ties in to much of what we've been discussing here the last few
days--all in all, its the rare and oddball stuff that is drawing the most
interest these days, while the run-of-the-mill things go neglected. Anyone who
has done shows more or less regularly over the last few years will tell you
that loose figures just don't sell well currently; hence, there isn't much
money in them for dealers.
ron
Heath A Strickland
Oct 8 1998
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting.vintage
This is an excellent point John brings up. I often wonder myself how
POTF figures ever became and remain rarities as far as the loose variety
goes. A recent trip to the earth solidified how common most POTF
really are. They had boxes full of every figure including POTF.
I have noticed this in other shops and shows I've gone to as well.
In my estimation, prices should drop dramatically but dealers I
suppose would rather keep a huge inventory rather than take a hit
on their retirement fund.
Heath
Bubba Bo Bob Fett
Oct 16 1998
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting.vintage
> I don't think that sealed toys are necessarily "trendy", to me "trendy" sort
> of demeans this movement towards and demand for sealed toys. Simple fact is
> that mint sealed items look better than opened ones. There is just no
> comparing the visual feel of a c-9/10 sealed or mint in box "new" item
What's the point in owning a toy and it's box, if you can't see the toy?
This is the same type of thing that they tried to get sports card
collectors to believe about factory sealed sets. Who's to say that the toy
you bought is actually in the box if you never open it? Some unscrupulous
person may have removed the toy and replaced it with objects of similar
wieght and resealed it. I saw the done many time in the sports market
where the all the key cards were removed and replaced with worthless
cards.
I've been a collector/dealer of valuable worthless junk for about 25 years
and this whole 'never removed from box' craze is just stupid, unless there
is some type of window that allows yout o see what is inside.
Bubba Bo Bob Fett- lurking again because he has a bunch of trade stuff
Bubba Bo Bob Fett
Oct 16 1998
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting.vintage
> It is my feeling that collectors just arent' going after the midrange type of
> pieces anymore, like say a tie fighter in star wars box or an esb carded han
> hoth. It seems right now with a lot of people are going after the rarities and
> nothing else. Don't understand why, neccesarily, but it seems to be the story
> everywhere.
If you ahve the money to do it, aquiring the rarities first is the best
way to put together a collection. These are the pieces that tend to hold
their value and go up, thus aquiring them first is the best thing to do
since the common stuff really won't change in price much.
Bubba Bo Bob Fett- collector of lots of junk
Eric Allen Ehrbar
Oct 16 1998
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting.vintage
I agree, collecting mint in box toys is pretty silly.
If all you want to look at it is the box, all you need is the box. My
empty boxes look just as good as anyone's full boxes. Sure, maybe they
aren't "worth" as much, but I thought toy collectors are concerned about
the toy, not its worth...
Eric
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