Kirsten Schaulin
April 8 1998
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting.vintage
> Gus Lopez wrote:
> I wouldn't be surprised if those photos starting making their way into
> other Tomart publications (like eventually the softcover Tomart guide).
> Many of the items are already featured on the SWCA, although there is a
> lot of previously unseen stuff in the new Tomart book.
I *really* hope that happens. See if you can use your divine influence
and pass that on to Sansweet and Tumbusch, Gus. ;)
> You might be surprised how picky I am about splurging. I know some POTF2
> collectors who routinely spend more than me.
heh...good point.
>I buy about 2-3 vintage
> items a month, but usually make those purchases count. I'm into quality
> over quantity. I'm also not convinced throwing large money at collecting
> is the best strategy for acquiring a nice collection (although it sure
> helps :^)).
But regardless, those 2-3 things you buy a month aren't $6 each, are
they? I'm also into quality over quantity, which means that I buy one
nice vintage thing every 3-4 months or so, and get the 3 3/4" POTF2
stuff whenever I happen to run into it. Talk about building your
collection sllloooowwwwwllllyyy...
> I wish the price were lower too. Tom Tumbusch told me that they were
> trying to get a lower price but weren't able to.
Could you help to explain why? The tax thing has been mentioned
(although I worked at a publisher here in Cinci for a summer and taxes
were never a big problem..maybe they're different an hour north?), but
what else is there?
-Kirsten
Pamela Green
April 8 1998
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting.vintage
> Kirsten Schaulin writes:
>Yeah, but the problem is John, many of us *want* this book, but there's
>no way in hell we're going to spend an extra $70 for it. Gus, et al,
>I've seen you throw away (IMO of course) money on SW stuff like it's
>candy,
I think that's a mistaken impression of how one assembles a good
collection. As Gus and chris and Ron and Paul and a lot of other folks
have said, time and again, throwing money around is probably the *worst*
way to assemble a collection. Arm yourself with information, and be a
selective buyer. And if that means sometimes gritting your teeth and
paying a lot of money for a guidebook, then I think it's a good
investment.
I was privileged to see advance copies of some of the new "unproduced"
setion of the Tomart's guide, and it is really great stuff, IMHO. This is
the kind of stuff that never been seen, outside the SWCA.
The sad fact is, though, for you folks who don't want to spend $100 on the
new Tomart's guide, I'm betting that all of those pictures will probably
be available somewhere on the web literally within hours after the book is
out.
--Pam
Mark Meazark
April 8 1998
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting.vintage
> It's too bad that many will never be able to see the culmination
> of this work because of the books high price point.
People are going to make the choice. I will probably end up
getting one of the books because I want the pictures and
because I know a friend who will buy my first edition at
my cost so I can cut some expenses. Sure, I'd like a lower
price but I'd also like to find a Droids Boba Fett cheap
too.
By the way Mega, I am glad that you are so concerned about
collectors getting gouged. Does this mean you stopped
scalping new toys? Practice what we preach.
- MM
Phidias Barrios
April 8 1998
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting.vintage
> But regardless, those 2-3 things you buy a month aren't $6 each, are
> they? I'm also into quality over quantity, which means that I buy one
> nice vintage thing every 3-4 months or so, and get the 3 3/4" POTF2
> stuff whenever I happen to run into it. Talk about building your
> collection sllloooowwwwwllllyyy...
$6 here... $6 there... Eventually, collecting POTF2 can add up to a
lot of bucks. Not that there's anything wrong with that of course. I
guess it's just a matter of prioritizing what you really like.
P.Ba
Scott Bradley
April 8 1998
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting.vintage
> The sad fact is, though, for you folks who don't want to spend $100 on the
> new Tomart's guide, I'm betting that all of those pictures will probably
> be available somewhere on the web literally within hours after the book is
> out.
My sentiment exactly. I don't hold with the excuse that Tomart
"couldn't bargain for a better price". Just wait a little while; the
pictures of the added section of unproduced stuff will be up on the web
before you know it.
-Scott
Kirsten Schaulin
April 8 1998
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting.vintage
> I think that's a mistaken impression of how one assembles a good
> collection. As Gus and chris and Ron and Paul and a lot of other folks
> have said, time and again, throwing money around is probably the *worst*
> way to assemble a collection. Arm yourself with information, and be a
> selective buyer. And if that means sometimes gritting your teeth and
> paying a lot of money for a guidebook, then I think it's a good
> investment.
I didn't mean to imply that Gus, et al aren't selective buyers, however,
spending $2000 on any one SW item *is* "throwing away" money to me.
(which is why I wrote IMO in my original posting) Pamela, you can't
deny that your husband has done this on occaision, can you? Do you see
the distinction? It's just a different arrangement of priorities. (and
please don't take this out of the context it was originally written in.
This isn't judgement on my part.)
-Kirsten
woods01
April 8 1998
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting.vintage
> My sentiment exactly. I don't hold with the excuse that Tomart
> "couldn't bargain for a better price". Just wait a little while; the
> pictures of the added section of unproduced stuff will be up on the web
> before you know it.
Its amazing how big this thread got. Looks like Tomart made a big mistake.
Havn't they read any of the letters they get about POTF2 collectors
complainingabout scalping or excessive variations? I can't see a reason why
they couldn't have published all these new photos in a special edition of
their magazine. Or as a special supplement book, or even in the normal 2nd
edition for $5-10 more. The 2nd edition came out a few monthsago, and Tomarts
must have had the idea for this hard cover at least a year ago because of the
time it takes to publish books. It was just plain gouging to trick devoted
collectors into buying their book twice. Hmm maybe they've been brain
storming at Skywalker Ranch? -John
Adam Pawlus
April 8 1998
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting.vintage
> It's too bad that many will never be able to see the culmination of this
> work because of the books high price point.
It's a shame they couldn't release a supplement to the second edition
for $30 or so...
--Adam
Phidias Barrios
April 8 1998
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting.vintage
> Yea, but just think that you have spent $1500 dollars on a COLLECTION
> you can enjoy.
>
"Enjoyment" is a relative term. Someone may enjoy spending $1500 on a
bunch of POTF2 stuff while another person would rather spend it on a
single proto. There's nothing wrong with either one.
P.Ba
A1B2C369
April 9 1998
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting.vintage
>$6 here... $6 there... Eventually, collecting POTF2 can add up to lot of
> bucks.
This phrase perfectly describes collecting POTF2 stuff. Collecting this stuff
can be more expensive IMO than collecting vintage items. I have spent probably
close to $1500 on all of the POTF2 figs, vehicles, 12 inch dolls, SW buddies,
deluxe figs, and all the other items Kenner has released in the last couple of
years. This might not be much money to most of the people who collect SW, but
to a 16 year old who makes minimum wage, this is a lot. Anyway I just wanted
to use this space to thanks the guys and gals of the Ohio Star Wars Collectors
Club, especially John, Chris, and Dan, for breaking my addiction to POTF2 stuff
and for showing me the light of collecting vintage. :)
BrendanB
rlcox
April 9 1998
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting.vintage
> Yea, but just think that you have spent $1500 dollars on a COLLECTION you
> can enjoy.
I don't see why someone can't enjoy a smaller collection with more distinctive
pieces. Remember, quantity does not always equate quality. One collects what
they enjoy. If someone would rather spend $1000 on a proof card than a
bucketful of POTF2, then so be it. It's what they like to collect.
Richard
Mark Meazark
April 9 1998
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting.vintage
> Mark, don't you have anything better to do than contest every post I make
> on the internet.
> Wether it be in RTAF or Star Wars groups or even a comment on ECW, you seem
> to be right behind me posting a reply.
> I mean am I that good looking you have to continually stalk me across the
> net.
> Come on, man, grow up!!!!
Eric, sorry to disappoint you but I am not stalking you. As much
as you'd like to paint yourself as a victim, it's just not the
case. What this comes down to is two people who have the same
interests but have directly opposite opinions. For example,
you like to scalp people...I am against scalping. If someone
posts something that I find insulting or a total joke, I am
inclined to post a comment. Simple as that.
While I appreciate your attempt to swerve the issue away from
the point I made by calling me a stalker, it only proves that
you have no defense FOR the point I made. The first tactic that
a person will use when they can't argue something is to
start throwing up swerves. Too bad.
The issue is simple - you are a hypocrite for complaining about
people getting gouged while you are more than happy to gouge
people on new toys.
If you want to argue that this is untrue, by all means please do.
If you want to throw out more swerves designed to get sympathy and
avoid the subject, save it. The "poor, poor pitiful me" routine
just proves that you don't have an argument.
- MM
Chris Fawcett
April 9 1998
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting.vintage
> Yea, but just think that you have spent $1500 dollars on a COLLECTION you
> can enjoy.
> Some vintage buyers are paying $2000+++ for single production pieces.
> thousands for a prototype is one thing, but spending $1000+++ for certain
> carded figures that are not all that rare and showing up more and more
> everyday is getting to be Ri-God damn-diculous.
I disagree. I would rather spend $2000 on *one* cool vintage prototype
or even one vintage production figure than have the whole line of POTF2
to this point. I would get more enjoyment out of that one piece than
the entire POTF2 line. Quantity does not necessarily make a person
happy. Some people would rather have that one quality piece than a
thousand pieces everyone and their brother has.
Cj
John Wooten
April 9 1998
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting.vintage
>If you are happy with that one piece then fine, but many are under the
>impression that one must have several pieces in the 1K range to have a
>collection that they can fully appreciate. That isn't true!! Many
Of course it isn't true!
>collectors are being swept into pursuit of rare carded figures and
>veichles, because they feel that "one piece" makes their collection, wheter
I really haven't met any collectors that think like this. Most collectors
really have modest goals and are very focused on what makes *them* happy, and
not at all influenced by what other people think.
>collecting, well so be it. But look around your not competing with malcom
>forbes for that jawa, you're competing with a bunch of semi-employed boys
>in their 20's for that coveted piece. It's this whole attitude that Star
>Wars toys are no longer a HOBBY, but raher holy grails that really gets to
>me. Wheter you want to pay $1000 bucks for this or that or $100 bucks for
>this book is fine. Just don't tell others that they have to do the same.
>anyways rarity does not make for quality either.
I don't remember hearing anyone say this at all. I've certainly never got
that feeling. I have "grails" of course, but that's because there are a
select few pieces I would love to have someday. In most cases, grails are
expensive, but just because someone's grail is the most visible item on their
want list doesn't mean that's all they're shooting for. My grail might be a
sealed Death Star or POTF Stormtrooper proof, but I also have recently been
looking for movie viewer cartridges and sealed puzzles. Stuff other
collectors think is goofy. Do I care? Certainly not.
John
John Wooten
April 9 1998
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting.vintage
>I wasn't talking about prototypes, I was talking about production carded
>figures. if you think $3000 for a carded Yaf is justified, well think
>again. There is a difference between thousand's on production pieces and
>thousands on protoypes. I AM NOT against spending tousands on one of a
>kind pieces and in fact have offered thousands of dollars on this newsgroup
>for at least ten different protoypes, so I am not against buying Star Wars
>prototpyes. What I am against is the prevailing attitude in high end star
>wars land that $100 bucks is not too much to spend or even not enough to
>spend on a book because some pay $1000 bucks an item. Well wheter you like
>it or not you are being exploited for that $100 bucks, but if it seems that
>if that $100 bucks feeds your ego and divides collectors into haves and
>have nots, well then that exploitation is fine as long as Tomart has
>elevated me to the next *class* of star wars collectors!!!
Ok, I have to ask, where the hell is all this coming from?!? Demand sets
these prices. I've never seen a $3000 Yak, but I have seen it at $1500 in an
auction. People get that much because others are willing to pay for it.
Whether you or I think it is worth it is irrelevant if others are willing to
go higher.
>But is that all there is left in star wars collecting, "I have it, you
>don't NAH NAH NAH NAH" That is so childish. Personally I would LOVE to get
Whoever said that? I think you're reading far too much into it. Some folks
enjoy owning the rarer stuff. What's wrong with that?
>other colector. This is not a competition, this is supposed to be fun!!!
>Obvoiusly though it has come down to rarity over anything else. Why does
>everyone want VLIX?? I bet half of those out there looking for them don't
>have all or any of the non movie related Droids figures. So why do you
>want it? I know- OMIGOD HE'S GOT A VLIX! WOW!!! big deal!! get real!!!!
>Buy what you really want and be happy, but don't go out there trying to
>collect to impresss your fellow star wars collectors for in the next 10
>years STAR WARS collecting will be like it was in 1987 and very few of us
>wiill still be here. I know I will, will you? Rarity does not mean
>quality and it dosent' mean happiness.
I think I understand that what you're trying to do above is tell collector's
they don't have to get rare stuff to "be cool". Unfortunately, it also comes
out as if you think those that collect rare stuff are into rubbing it into the
noses of others or "impress people" That's not the case at all in my
experience. People should simply collect what they like. If rare means
happiness and quality to them, then more power to them.
John
Phidias Barrios
April 9 1998
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting.vintage
> if that $100 bucks feeds your ego and divides collectors into haves and
> have nots, well then that exploitation is fine as long as Tomart has
> elevated me to the next *class* of star wars collectors!!!
>
> But is that all there is left in star wars collecting, "I have it, you
> don't NAH NAH NAH NAH" That is so childish. Personally I would LOVE
> eric duchak
Hey Eric, are you sure your last name isn't Sansoni? ;P
P.Ba
Tim Sparks
So basically what you are saying, Megatron, is that you have been
rlcox
> If you are happy with that one piece then fine, but many are under the
Of course it's not true. Nobody has said that it was.
> Many collectors are being swept into pursuit of rare carded figures and
Ridiculous. Nobody I know collects because it's going to cost them a lot of
And certainly rarity is a draw. What's the point of collecting if your stuff
> Star Wars toys are not fine
And if you "get your rocks off" buying what you do, more power to you as well.
> But look around your not competing with malcom
Like I said, all hobbies have holy grails. You comment on the $2000+ Jawa,
> anyways rarity does not make for quality either.
True, nor does rarity or quality necessarily equal $$ Good grief, you can pick
Richard
John Wooten
>But why because it is cool or because it is rare.
but why because it's star wars? you can use this argument for anything, not
>Even Steven Sansweet said that he is a sucker for rarity. Sure it is cool
I still don't get this ego stuff. What little I have that is truly rare I
>all this competion amongst each other for supposed rarities is convincing a
If someone is worried about their "status" enough to think they need to spend
>I understand that completely. I understand fully that when you challange
"institution"? From what I've read, everyone here is basically in agreement
>little new information. If you think though that people are not using this
How is saying "I'm gonna buy this $100 book" gonna impress anyone? I'd like
>people are looking to out bid each other and compete with one another is is
Don't you see the *vast* assumptions you're making? how do you know that
John
Click here for part 3 of this thread.
> megatronfore...@worldnet.att.net
April 9 1998
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting.vintage
trolling? Is this an accurate assesment?
April 9 1998
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting.vintage
> impression that one must have several pieces in the 1K range to have a
> collection that they can fully appreciate. That isn't true!!
> veichles, because they feel that "one piece" makes their collection, wheter
> they really enjoy it or not, they feel they are establishing themselves as
> high end collectors which is such bullshit!!!
mony. If so, why not collect real estate or antique cars? I collect the POTF
'85 line, so eventually I'm going to be getting a Yak and Anakin. Why?
certainly not because they're worth a lot of money. I need it for my little
corner of completism. Believe me, if I could get a Yak for $50 I would but I
don't dictate prices, the market does.
is *exactly* the same as everyone elses? I think everyone wants that
conversation piece that adds a little personality to a collection. And not
everything rare is worth an arm and a leg, either.
> antiques and artifacts and if you think spending $5000 bucks on a vinyl
> caped Jawa is getting your rocks off and entering a higher class od
> collecting, well so be it.
But why point fingers and accuse fellow collectors of being stupid or
whatever. Any established hobby's going to have it's high end pieces, it's
just the way it is and we have to live with it.
> forbes for that jawa, you're competing with a bunch of semi-employed boys
> in their 20's for that coveted piece. It's this whole attitude that Star
> Wars toys are no longer a HOBBY, but raher holy grails that really gets to
> me. Wheter you want to pay $1000 bucks for this or that or $100 bucks for
but not the $18 Squidhead.
up the small Luke POTF coin (proto) for under $50. It's rare, it's an
interesting piece, and for something that only @400 exist the price's not too
shabby either.
April 9 1998
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting.vintage
just rarity. "Why" is usually that it makes someone happy.
>to have something that is one of a kind, sure it is ego heightening. But
don't feel affects my ego. I think they're neat and I like them a whole lot,
but I sure don't think someone else's stuff is inferior to mine. It's all in
what we each like. This diversity is one of the main reasons it's so fun to
look through other collections.
>lot of newcomers, that they are on a lesser plane if they enjoy a loose
>anakin over a c-10 carded anakin, and that there is some great fufillment
>in getting that $1000 dollar piece.
$X on something to be on a "higher plane" they either don't understand
collecting or are in it for the wrong reasons. I'm not sure I can say it any
other way...people should collect whatever they want, not what they think
someone else would think about it. I think you are really mistaken in your
implication that some folks are happy just to drop $1000 on something. That's
not true. Don't confuse the happiness with getting the piece with happiness
over "beating someone out" or just spending $1000. I will say that their is a
certain fulfilment in getting that piece you've been searching for, but what I
don't think you understand is that this can be for *anything*. A person who
picks up a 12 back Han Solo might feel exactly the same as someone who just
found the latest wave of POTF2. Whatever the goal, it is that feeling that we
all share. It is that feeling that gets us talking to each other and putting
pictures on the web to share with others. I really don't ever remember having
someone act like "nyah nyah nyah" to me because they had something I didn't.
Whether or not you get that impression is up to you, but in my experience,
I've not met anyone like that.
>the current conventions of a "instittuion" that it comes off as bitterness
>and resentment, but it's not. I have the money for the book, just as I
about the high cost. For some it's worth it, others it's not. That's sorta
how the world works. A vintage Han Hoth prototype large figure isn't worth
$100 to me, let alone thousands. It's a personaly decision for each of us,
and from what I see here, others are emphasizing that too. From your post, I
would think that we're all on the same side here.
>and other instances to impress others, well i gotta diagree. So many
to think this group is a little harder to impress. I won $200 in the McDs
Monopoly game...anyone impressed? didn't think so.
>unbelivable. I used to see it with dealers, but know I am so accustomed to
>seeing it with collectors it is sickening. People are not going after what
>they want, but what othres want. There was a Hoth battle header card at
>alantique, so many people looked at it and gwaked and awed over it. But
>WHY??? Because it was several hundred bucks and right now is demand, not
>because it is so cool. for some reason rarity=cool and i just think that
>it is the wrong way to collect .
people just weren't totally impressed with actually seeing one? how do you
know they all didn't just really like it (it is very cool)? It really sounds
to me like *you're* the one doing all the judging here. Just because you
don't understand why people like something rare doesn't mean that the people
who do like it only do so because it is rare. Let's say for an instant that
they did gawk and awe because it is rare. So what? Lots of people like to
see things they rarely see or have never seen before. This doesn't translate
into "I have to spend $2000 on it 'cause it's rare". That just doesn't make
any sense. Give people a little credit. If they like to spend $5 or $1000,
it doesn't matter as long as they like it. It's simply wrong to assume that
anyone spending $1000 or whatever is only doing it for "status"
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