06/25/05 05:16 PM
I'm just curious if the seller does not state that it is factory sealed but says instead, figure in package or something to likes of that and also states that the item is in as-is shown condition only. Is that being deceptive? Personally, I would be a little suspect bidding and that would probably lower the price on the piece, even if it turned out to be 100% factory sealed. What do you think?
AJ_van_Zelst
06/25/05 06:01 PM
chewielvr wrote: I'm just curious if the seller does not state that it is factory sealed but says instead, figure in package or something to likes of that and also states that the item is in as-is shown condition only. Is that being deceptive? Personally, I would be a little suspect bidding and that would probably lower the price on the piece, even if it turned out to be 100% factory sealed. What do you think?
Stating "as-shown" is waving all complaints about a sale. Totaly wrong. If you know about any defacts you have to mention them, apart from rule that the buyer also needs to ask questions, as far what can be exspected of him (well...that's what the Dutch law-maker has to say about it).
The figure that started this thread should be stated like a "figure sealed in original bubble portion of a card, which has been applied, afterwards, on a vintage cardback".
And the different view on "MOC"...come on. That's simply his way out of the hole problem; Not saying he was wrong, but saying his interpretation of MOC is different to some others.
I do have to say that the greedo had a lot of red flags, the ear-part missing, not lining up...
-Alex
Greedo_Lives
06/25/05 06:31 PM
chewielvr wrote:
I'm just curious if the seller does not state that it is factory sealed but says instead, figure in package or something to likes of that and also states that the item is in as-is shown condition only. Is that being deceptive? Personally, I would be a little suspect bidding and that would probably lower the price on the piece, even if it turned out to be 100% factory sealed. What do you think?
Listing an item with those special words "as is" or the ever popular "I dont know anything about this item what you see is what you get", those words should strike fear in buyers hearts. Is it deceptive? I personally think most of the time it is, its basically a cop out to avoid mentioning flaws with an item. How often do you think a collectiable item that looks like new condition is listed with this type of description? If people would not bid on these auctions it would help, but everyone wants to win that mythical deal, rarely does it work out well.
Adam_Lovera
06/25/05 07:42 PM
James_Gallo wrote:
Adam your use of MOC is a load of bull and you know it. It someone put a figure cut down to the bubble on ebay and called it MOC there would be ripped apart. I realize everyone can have there own opinions about things, but there are certain things that are accepted in the hobby and the meaning of MOC certainly does not bend anywhere near as much as you are trying to bend it.
Don't try and bend a defination of a word to clear yourself of blame. If that helps you sleep better at night so be it, but just remember "once you start down the dark path forever will it dominate your destiny." A very true statement that applies to all walks of life IMO.
James G
This goes to James, and everyone else who reads this post- so read carefully... and take it to heart- this will more then likely be the last post on this thread for me ;) : The acronymn "MOC" is VERY ambiguous, could mean one thing to one person... and something else to another - I think that has been established in this thread.. to the hilt. Whether you want to believe that or not, James. That is why, now(and even in the past for the most part) I tend to use "100% Factory sealed" as a better account for the item at hand(and not just simply MOC), then I break down card condition(creased, edge wear, etc.) , then I break down bubble condition(dings/dents/cracks/lifting/yellowing/etc.) , then I break down figure condition(which is typically Mint - but if there is a serious factory paint mark.... I will note that).
Lastly, I extend ANOTHER attempt at giving Randy back some kind of agreed upon Partial Refund on the Greedo piece(this is my 3rd or 4th time trying..... however, Randy has yet to PM or email me with any kind of dollar value). Really, that is the best I can do with this whole ordeal.
The Central Theme of all six STar Wars movies which is FEAR OF LOSS - fear of loosing loved ones/friends / material posetions/ planets/ your soul :/ ... and if you recognize this FACT about Star Wars ....... then I should not have to fear giving up some kind of money to help make a buyer "more content" or "happier" about what has transpired. Thats what occured with Mike and I ...... and like he said before, he "almost sweeped this whole matter under the rug.. and forgot about it, till he read a post about me giving info. how to doctor up a card". However, Mike did get a fair/resonable refund back from me.... and ultimately seemed content with $155 back in his wallet, and a "Lesson Learned" from this whole matter.
Actually James, about "once you start down the dark path forever will it dominate your destiny". Anyone, in life that is well balance has to at least **AT ONE TIME walk on the dark path of life- for a day, hour, etc. , to gain a better understanding of what its like to have "bad/negative motivations" , and obviously same goes visa-versa ....... to know the way of the "Force", and be a helping- giving- positive person your own life/ and society.
However, if people come away from this whole ordeal with a "negative" mindset on what has transpired , and have not learned a damn thing......... then your the real losers here (not myself.. as I have learned 10 fold what most of you are simply reading on these posts... since I experienced this Greedo piece, from buying it.... to selling it twice ).
Luke a fine lad , with a biblical name .... who for a short time walked on the dark side, learned about the force-from Yoda+Ben ........ and came correct in the end by helpign his father make the return back to the light side of the force. :/ Ultimately, like many of you all know, its about the metamorphosis of Anakin to Vader who dismantles the Jedi order because it is out of balance.... to "goody-goody two-shoes, set in its ways" , then fully becomes Vader..... and rules the galaxy with Palpatine(who really he is just Palpatines Puppet- kinda like a slave factory worker working for a Corperation) ... then by ROTJ bum-rushes Palpatine, and dismantles the Sith ... and becomes one with the Force by the time he dies. Thats what I love about Vader- he will take out Jedi, or Sith if need be... to keep things "IN BALANCE , plus he oppitimizes walking on the light + Dark side of the force :)
BTW, Mike.... that ESB CDN 41-back Chewbacca you low-balled me at $50 a year-or so ago, I had to end up selling for $75 to someone else more deserving ..... just to help keep the "Balance" of collecting certain pieces in order(I am no Palpatine.... maybe a Anakin/Vader)- recieve a "FAIR" price on the piece..... + it went to a good home :D
Dane
06/25/05 07:52 PM
MOC stands for (Mint on Card) not MORC or (MINT on RE-glued Card)
once something has been done do it as seen on the greedo, its no longer MOC. its a mint loose figure on a re-glued piece of crap.
just suck it up and admit you've done something s*****, you're starting to act more like someone else who used to frequent here that liked 3 packs....... :/
JohnH
06/25/05 08:04 PM
Adam, your sardonic nature and "don't give a s**t" attitude to this issue isn't helping you any. Your responses in this thread have, to me, spoken volumes about your character and have done nothing to back what I thought was a positive reputation in this hobby. By twisting words and terms you're placing yourself at the level of a Decadetoys or marvelousmarvcus. I think you need to step back and rethink your approach to this issue if you want to salvage what credibility you may still have here.
John
jedi5
06/25/05 08:33 PM
Adam in 2003
Adam_Lovera wrote:
MOC means "mint on card". If the seal has been broken, POP removed through the card, .... then to me the figure(mercandise) IS NOT MINT....maybe near-mint. Hence, the term MOC should really not apply here since the seal/POP removed.... thus no longer truely "Mint".
Adam in 2005
Adam_Lovera wrote:
To me , MOC and Factory sealed are different(whether you want to believe it, or not). MOC is "Mint on Card"..... which this Greedo IS. "Factory Sealed" means that the bubble has not been altered, messed with,etc. 100% factory sealed means there are no lifts at ANY of the edges/corners.
Dave
06/25/05 09:04 PM
JohnH wrote:
By twisting words and terms you're placing yourself at the level of a Decadetoys or marvelousmarvcus. I think you need to step back and rethink your approach to this issue if you want to salvage what credibility you may still have here.
i couldn't agree more. Some times it's best to admit wrong doing and look forward. The tone of your replies may do more damage than good...
wookiemonster
06/25/05 10:03 PM
Hey, I will always take money :)
No, really, if you want to refund the $45 I am out then feel free to.
I know you stated you waited for an email back from me about what refund would be fair, which I did not receive or respond to. I only sold it because I would rather be out $45 for this piece than $120 as is was.
Even though we did not connect on the refund emails, we email back and forth about 4 times with your defending the auction and leaving me to believe that I was wasting my time.
If I gave up too easily I guess that is my fault
Randy
Jim_Mc_Callum
06/25/05 10:13 PM
Hudson happens to be staying with me for the weekend and we decided that we would open the box with the Greedo in it tonight. I was downstairs, Huddy was upstairs and he could see the reseal from there. :D :) :o :P
Adam, how could you have not noticed the reaseal...you have been in the hobby for more than 12 days haven't you? :? *crazy*
Remember the Leia Bespin you sold me, a couple of years ago It had a giant Eatons price tag sticker on it. Personally I loved that price tag so never thought of removing it, but the person I sold it to sure did. It came off really cleanly for him but revealed a huge tear that was hidden from any unsuspecting buyer. I guess this isn't your first time....is it?
I didn't buy the Greedo for my collection, I bought it for nostalgic value and infamy..."The Piece that Drove Adam Lovera to collecting History" Please say Hi to Albert for us :)
Oh yeah, of that $2500 in vintage you have for sale, would you say 50% of it is resealed, touched up, or altered, or maybe even more? Have fun spending Randys $125, I hope you can pick up some 4-UP's at the local flea market.
James T. McCallum
WiredMike
06/25/05 11:01 PM
Jim_Mc_Callum wrote:
Remember the Leia Bespin you sold me, a couple of years ago It had a giant Eatons price tag sticker on it. Personally I loved that price tag so never thought of removing it, but the person I sold it to sure did. It came off really cleanly for him but revealed a huge tear that was hidden from any unsuspecting buyer. I guess this isn't your first time....is it?
BAM the hole just got deeper. You know in this hobby,word of mouth can make or break you. I think the damage has been done. Least I got a heads up on who to avoid in the future.
Todd_Hudson
06/25/05 11:05 PM
While I don't want to kick you when your down but some things really disturb me about your comments. You seem to say some very sarcastic remarks to comments that have been made about you.
The main problem I have in all this mess is when you make the statement about Mike bringing out the imperfections of this piece. You make it sound like you had no clue prior to him pointing it out to you. If this is the case you should leave the hobby, its clear as day. To prove this point we showed the piece to Barb(Jim's wife) she noticed right away it was a reseal and even commented it was up to high. Come on Adam, do you really believe anyone who reads the forums believes you couldn't have known it was a reseal?
Another problem with your comments was about trying not to hurt the community, but is it ok to dupe or trick people on e-bay but not on the forums. I STRONGLY believe that if you try and cheat someone on ebay you will also try and cheat them here. We have many examples including Marcus,Mario(fx-master) and Shaun to name the most notorious thieves.
Other people have questioned, privately, your collecting ethics and your selfishness towards people whom you call friends. I will not out these people and I do mean more than a COUPLE, if they wish to respond thats on them.
-Todd-
Adam_Lovera
06/26/05 12:28 AM
This is my absolute last post on this thread...... I just had to grow some fairly large testicles, and stomp out this "flaming" fire thread. PM coming to Randy.... as he has been civil with me about this matter- especially in the last day or so .
Nice sarcastic post Todd.... I sense a bit of jealousy out of you- in regards to me *selling that ESB CDN Chewie to someone else other then yourself- I never got a reply back about that Clipper Chewie that you were inquiring about ..... ohhhh, I guess you must have found another one , like the real SW hunter that you are :/
Jim..... good try..... have fun collecting CDN ...... and way to go in spending $80 on that Greedo piece of junk ;) , you'd have been better off using that $80 to insure your collection
Dane
06/26/05 12:33 AM
i love how when someone kicks dirt all over you, you try to push some of it off on someone else you didnt sell an item to.
really makes you look like a great person.
you [censored] scumbag >:(
prufrock
06/26/05 12:57 AM
Adam_Lovera wrote:
This is my absolute last post on this thread...... I just had to grow some fairly large testicles, and stomp out this "flaming" fire thread.
Jim..... good try..... have fun collecting CDN ...... and way to go in spending $80 on that Greedo piece of junk ;) , you'd have been better off using that $80 to insure your collection
I feel pretty sad right now. I have only been a forum member for a short time but have come to respect the opinions and insights of many people who post here. I am disappointed that this issue has not been redressed in a better manner. I am surprised to see people break from contacts who have seemingly helped each other out -- one of the points of being a member here. I am not shocked by Adam's last post. In my profession, I experience this all of the time: people go on the attack when they are embarassed, and this incident must be an embarassing one for a knowledgable collector.
There is a distinct, and unfortunate, pattern that I have seen in the last few months. Some "sellers" use the boards to gain knowledge, connections, reputation, and items. After selling a fair amount of decent items, one or two slip by that are questionable. Then the whole matter turns south very quickly. They betray people, both here and on ebay, in a manner that is criminal at worst and ammoral at best.
I hope that Adam can get past his resentment, anger, and embarassment to avoid being lumped in permanently with those "sellers" that he has already (in some members' minds) been joined with in this thread.
Shawn (sorry, I know the name is tainted...)
Jeffery_Hunter
06/26/05 01:34 AM
Adam wrote:
Quote:
I like the number 3
How about the number 8? That's the number of "Smirk" graemlins you have used throughout this thread, and I think it speaks volumes about your attitude on this topic. :/
Adam wrote:
Quote:
To me, these things are simple production pieces... that people pay 10-100's of there origional cost now a days. If thats what floats your boat.... then cool, just be sure not to get sea-sick
This also left a bad taste in my mouth. It comes off as a very "holier than thow" comment. Prolly should have left that line out. Proto collector's aren't "cooler" than production folks, just like carded collector's aren't cooler than loose collector's. It's all good.
I hope you can over come this whole ordeal, but a very true/redneck proverb comes to mind, that I will edit for explitive purposes:
"A man can build a thousand bridges, but he makes one bad deal, and he's not a bridge builder anymore, he's a bad dealer"
-Jeffery
Dave
06/26/05 03:19 AM
Jim_Mc_Callum wrote:
Remember the Leia Bespin you sold me, a couple of years ago It had a giant Eatons price tag sticker on it. Personally I loved that price tag so never thought of removing it, but the person I sold it to sure did. It came off really cleanly for him but revealed a huge tear that was hidden from any unsuspecting buyer. I guess this isn't your first time....is it?
I bought this off of Jim. I was pissed about it too. I know it wasn't Jim's doing, but it was clearly a cover up like that Bossk a couple of years back (who was that BTW...?). So to date, two shady CND carded figures have come form Adam... What's up with that?
Adam, could you shed some more light on the origin of the Bespin Leia?
Dave
06/26/05 03:21 AM
WiredMike wrote:
Jim_Mc_Callum wrote:
Remember the Leia Bespin you sold me, a couple of years ago It had a giant Eatons price tag sticker on it. Personally I loved that price tag so never thought of removing it, but the person I sold it to sure did. It came off really cleanly for him but revealed a huge tear that was hidden from any unsuspecting buyer. I guess this isn't your first time....is it?
BAM the hole just got deeper. You know in this hobby,word of mouth can make or break you. I think the damage has been done. Least I got a heads up on who to avoid in the future.
Dude, you've been here for what, a month? Adam has been a part of this community for a long time... give him a chance to put things right before you talk about someone you don't know...
edit: After reading Adam's last post, I take back the above statement...
--Adam, dude, are you being medicated right now? Maybe take a break from the forum for a bit and deal with this tomorrow...
Sowth
06/26/05 07:17 AM
Hey Adam,
Jim's post reminded me of a Luke Farmboy MOC that I bought from you a couple of years ago. You may recall that it had a K-Mart price sticker on it and when I removed it there was an obvious pre-existing tear underneath. I complained to you about it, but you said it was news to you so based on your good reputation I took your word for it and didn't ask you for a refund. I just checked my old PM's and your response is still there. In light of the above it makes interesting reading.
Quote:
The Luke Farmboy origionaly had a larger Toys R US price sticker on it.... that I removed when I first recieved the package. Then underneath that sticker was that K-Mart sticker... not sure how that one got there ! Some old lady had it here in the States..... , and that is the way that I bought it from her. If the sticker tear is that bad.... I'd just get another price sticker(big enough) , and place it over the area.... and the damage would be masked. When I said C-9..C9+ on that piece......, I was speaking in terms of what the package (in my eyes) .. is . If the price sticker is on it.. covering that area... its C-9+... and no one would question its authenticity. Just an idea if you Ever needed to sell it.... or send it to AFA.
Mate I'm pretty pissed off about this now as it appears that you ripped me off. When you suggested that I cover up the tear myself to on-sell it I knew that I would never buy from you again, and feel a bit ashamed now that I didn't raise the alarm with the rest of the crew here. So guys sorry for not raising the red flag earlier, but better late than never.
And to Adam, always remember that Toy Karma will get you in the end buddy.
Will
Lee_Bullock
06/26/05 08:17 AM
:(
YamSolo
06/26/05 10:10 AM
:( this whole thing about adam is starting to sound like an episode from the x-files. "Trust No One"
BryanSimmons
06/26/05 11:00 AM
I've got to say I'm really surprised and disappointed. Taking the culpability out of these transactions (because these always turn into basic he said / she said arguments) the only things I have to go on are your words here in this thread. Your sarcastic comments toward Todd and Jim in the recent post really didn't set well with me. Regardless of guilt, it comes across as defensive which implies guilt. Also, it's an immature way to respond. For your sake I hope all of this gets worked out - but my advice would be to think through your posts before attacking other members, even if they are attacking you.
Heathen_Bar
06/26/05 12:20 PM
Jeffery_Hunter wrote:
Proto collector's aren't "cooler" than production folks, just like carded collector's aren't cooler than loose collector's.
-Jeffery
No they're actually uber geeks instead of merely geeks. :cool Sorry, outside world perspective! Could not resist dark side :P
WiredMike
06/26/05 12:38 PM
Never mind, letting it go. :cool
Dane
06/26/05 12:42 PM
WiredMike wrote:
Dave, yes I have been here only a month. But that does not mean that I am any more less of a collector than anyone else here.
Maybe I dont have tens of thousands of dollars invested(yet)but I do have a sizable amount of money tied up in my collection so far.
oh god no..... you're just breaking ground for your hole man, just let it go before you're buried like adam.
Click here for part 4 of this thread.
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