The Absolute GREEDO TRUTH

Reproduced with permission from our good friends at Rebelscum.com

Adam_Lovera
06/27/05 02:37 AM

I just emailed Chris G. this... since he had emailed me regarding this matter, and gave me some words of wisdom.

To Dave and Will- the absolute TRUTH- both of those carded figures came into my posession just like you recieved them(minus one price sticker on Will's Luke package... which I took off, revealing the K-mart sticker on top of the tear). Again, the absolute truth. Dave, like I said before.. I'd be interested in the Leia.

To Mike , Randy, Jim and the rest of Rebelscum : The carded Greedo is a FAKE....... produced by yours truely, Adam Lovera .......... 100%%%%%%%%%% absolute truth. The factory sealed bubble I aquired from Kathy from the Earth for $25 in early 2003. By the end of 2003, good ol' Andy Loney... yes, thats with one "N" had a bunch of cardbacks on Ebay ... one of which was a Greedo Canadian 20-back Fett Offer.... in fairly good shape. I won the auction for $26. Once both pieces were before me , it was time to go to work. About 2 years previous to this, a UK seller was selling on Ebay... what looked to be high end Palitoy 12-20-30 back packages on Ebay...... and they were going for low money, like $75.. he worded the auctions as "real bubble and cardbacks", but looked like real deal MOC's. I asked him about the bubble situation...... and he proceeded to tell me what his trick was to get his MOC's to look super good, just like Factory sealed MOC's (aquire a factory sealed bubble/cut cardback , a REAL cardback- so that the ripped area is not that big/significant.. so the sealed bubble can be placed on the cardback to hide any visable rips on the card , some fairly strong glue- ie. Liquid Nails to then join the bubble to the card. The trick is getting the bubble to be in absolute alignment of the card lines- not easy to do(as seen in the Greedo piece). There are a few more small detailed steps in making one of these reseals... but I will not go into full 100% detail... and on the Greedo, I did not even do a 100% full job- maybe 95%.

I finished this piece in late 2003 , my first- and last "custom recard/reseal/FAKE" (again... the ABSOLUTE TRUTH) , and thats where it rested until early 2005 when out of now where, Mike C. contacts me about having a 20-back Fett offer Greedo !!! Again, not sure where he found out this info. from. Just previous to this in 2004 , Mike had contacted me on a few occations.... asking for "Anything Canadian, MOC, anything" - in remembering one such item I offered him, which was the 41-back Chewie Canadian(which I bought off of Richard Whitecomb...... Scott Bradley...... you can back me up on this one, you remember this seller on Ebay back in 1999/2000 :/ :D ). Mike C's response to the Chewie after he saw pictures, description, etc.... alot of my time/energy :/ , was I can give you $50 for it :O :O :? :? :( I will never forget that Mike.... never ever. To me, that is kinda "disrespectful".... "low-balling" ..... not too cool , and I believe Mike to have a good idea/feel for what Canadian items do go for.

Jump ahead to early 2005 , when Mike is inquiring about the Greedo 20-back , and he SERIOUSLY wants to buy..... very-very agressively hunting this thing down. Then, I think back to when he was ..... in my way of thinking "disrespecting the value of that Chewie, like some people have been doing recently :/ ".... well, I then proceeded to send Mike 3-4 pictures(same pictures up on Ebay.... twice ) :/ of the Greedo, and gave him a "decent visual description" of the card/bubble/figure ..... noting the bottom right corner of the bubble- glue spot/ re-litho'ed , etc. Well, Mike looked at the pictures for a few days....., and made me an offer of like $145 , and I accepted :/ I sent him the item-well packaged, he quickly looked at it , and asked for a refund- which I mailed out to him. Then, I figured I'd try puting it on Ebay.. and see what kind of response I'd get- where Randy won the auction(again, sorry bro.... money is coming back at cha $) , which again helps to prove that even the most experience carded collector who has been through countless MOC's can be taken.

What did this all prove ?????

1. Fakes are hard to spot(some may not say so.. as they spoted the mis-alignment on Greedo's double bar lines, and litho area where his ear is.... kuddo's to you ;) )..... with just pictures(1-2-3 megapix. it doesnt matter), and a vague written description.

2. Foreign Carded figures are a hot commodity... look at those Meccano pieces that were on Ebay just the other day ;) , and yes these CDN Fett offers are definitly HTF.

3. Not all Rebelscumer's are truthful/honest/fully descriptive(as I am 99.999999999999% of the time with FActory sealed carded figures- AGAIN , the ABSOLUTE TRUTH)

4. If a deal seems too good to be true , it probably is( $145 IMO , is very low on a real-genuine piece like this in very displayable condition)

5. It is fairly easy /inexpensive to produce a carded figure like this(it takes a little time, in finding all the necessary components.... but for most US or Canadian MOC's, its possible)

Mike... Mike.... if you would have simply have not contacted me about this piece back in Jan. .... GREEDO would still be collecting dust on my shelf , but you had to disturb the RED ANT NEST , and get me going on this lil Experiment of mine- to see if you could spot a dupped fake. Not sure if this could have worked with a run of the mill Ebay seller , but coming from me- Adam L. ... with a reputation around RS ........ THERE's NO WAY ADAM could sell a FAKE piece, so everyting is all good (NOT! :/ ) which was supposed to have stopped at just Making the GREEDO ........ not actually selling it(again , ABSOLUTE TRUTH)

**If I was truely a scammer/Fraud Master.... in what ever shape/form(taking peoples money, sending multiple people recards, etc.), not being truthful on a consistant basis... which ultimately would be banished from RS QUICKLY- probably first week of trying !!! LOOK at my feedback, that speaks volumes -

Again, NEVER ONCE BEFORE(or after for that matter) Made a recard/reseal ..... till this GREEDO

Not too sure how some of you will take my "Greedo experiment" , from beginning to end... but like I said before.. I truely was not expecting to sell this piece(maybe give it away... maybe trade it down the line for something insignificant)- knowing that the person getting it would then NOT Sell it- to anyone. Are some people MORE irritated/P-ed off if someone were to do such a thing as I did-and not think of others feelings - sure, and I dont expect anyone to later come to me with open arms and say.. YO Adam, hey that was a ballsy thing that you did on RS, just to prove a point- or two. Not to mention, I definitly was not expecting selling it to Randy(given the high price it was at $120) on Ebay. If anything, maybe just to see if someone from RS would have comented about it on the forums.. posted a link, and asked questions in regards to its authenticity ;) ... that would have been something, but it was only on Ebay for 12-hours! Then, when Mike the other day sends me a PM.... telling me he found "proof" of my recard "recipe", and he is taking it public. I wasn't fully sure how to approach telling everyone how my "experiment" evolved out of simply **making a recard/reseal/falsified piece of junk- then getting 2 peoples hopes up in them thinking there getting a REAL Carded MOC 100% factory sealed figure... or in finalizing things with Randy(since I had exchanged emails with him before... offering a refund, but never getting a response back in finalizing a refund).

Now Jim has the BALL..... just Dont Drop IT :D :/
.... and to Todd... hey man, lighten up ....... you get too serious sometimes, throwing around big words at me. Just dont be a Palpatine to Kyle ... he is a young boy, too influential ..... fragile , you might hurt him ;)

Adam_Lovera
06/27/05 03:04 AM

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh, forgot to add:

I'm going away, out of town, for a little while... so I wont be able to respond to any questions/comments/etc. in regards to this thread / or anything I have for sale / or any loose ends that I have not tied up by the end of tonight. :cool

electricdragon
06/27/05 04:55 AM

You should go see a doctor, something is seriously messed up in your head. ´Nuff said.

CanadianCollector
06/27/05 07:09 AM

I wasn't going to reply to your goads about the Chewie but I will.

#1 My email to you about the Chewie stated: "If no one else bites, I'd take the Chewie for $50 as it would be an upgrade to the one I have."

Hardly high pressure tactics on my end. You can dictate whatever price you want for an item, but the market decides. There are a lot of Canadian ESB 41 back chewies out there. I paid under $25 U.S. for mine.

Your first response to me was that you would not take this back or refund money. It took a week of back and forth emails until you finally agreed to take it back. I'm just glad I paid close to $20 to send it registered.

As for supposed great price you gave on the Fett offer Greedo, I paid $160 for an AFA CDN Fett offer Death Star Droid recently on ebay. I haven't seen another DSD with Fett offer for sale since I started tracking this stuff in 2001/2002.

http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=50271&item=5966534351

#2 I haven't bothered looking for it yet, but at one time you allusions on scum that you had this rare rare rare Canadian Greedo 20 back. It was public knowledge. I believe you made this comment to Jasper when he was posting about his Fett offer focus.

#3 Thanks for finally admitting publicly that you defrauded me. Enjoy the money of mine that you kept, and I'm just glad that the rest of it that I lost (customs and return shipping) won't hurt me that much.

Edit: #4Andy Loney is a GREAT guy and had nothing to do with this whole scam, I just wanted to make that clear in case anyone was skimming through this thread.

Adam, will you ever sincerely apologize for this whole debacle? If anything I'm glad I spoke up, and regret that I swept this matter under the carpet back in March. I strongly encourage anyone who has been ripped off to speak out about it if the seller refuses to make good.

-Mike

BrianM
06/27/05 07:47 AM

I’m not involved in any transaction with Adam Lovera, and in fact my collecting and my involvement with this forum have been on the decline for a while now. Nonetheless, I’m compelled to express how insulted I am by this post, Adam. I have to admit that I had been doing my best to give you the benefit of the doubt, despite overwhelming responses to the contrary as well as your lack of contrition.

It’s not that you made and sold a fake that insulted me. It’s not that you are a scammer-liar-thief that insults me. It’s that you come here in your supposed “here’s the truth” thread and still refuse to accept responsibility for the wrongs you’ve committed. Instead you (1) blame Mike for this “red ants nest,” and (2) brush this off as some kind of “experiment.” I, for one, am really not interested in hearing excuses or anything about what point you are trying to prove. There are ways to prove points without stealing from your fellow collectors (see Chris G’s Death Star Droid proto find).

Half of your post above is under the heading “What did this all prove?” and yet everything you list under that heading is irrelevant. You’ve got balls coming here trying to turn this into some lesson we’re supposed to learn. The only thing this proved is that you are a real crook, the same level as Shaun, in my opinion. Not once do you apologize to this community for abusing the trust that was placed in you based on your status here. That abuse undermines everything that is and can be positive about this forum.

You owe everyone here an apology (which I don’t expect you’ll be man enough to give). After that, you should go away on your little trip and please don’t come back to Rebelscum.

JohnH
06/27/05 08:28 AM

Adam, seriously...just shut up. The more you say, the bigger of an a** you turn yourself into. Your credibility and respect is long gone, so just do what needs to be done and leave. No one here is going to deal with you again, your auctions will be monitored, you will be exposed, and I would suggest that someone add Adam's name to the "shady sellers" threads we have here at RS. Your experiement story is the biggest crock of s**t I've heard here since a certain former member announcing his own death via "his brother".

Congratulations. You've now put yourself in the class of Shawn Neinast, marvelousmarvcus, and fx-Master. I hope this was all worth it.

John

mogwai26
06/27/05 09:27 AM

Adam--you turn this into a soap-opera...i am bored of this topic....i never dealt with you and hopefully i will never deal with you...the most sad about this whole issue is in my oppinion not that you scammed somebody or make yourself ridiculous here...the sad thing is that you destroyed some credibility for the board as a whole...here are so many trustworthy,honest and even friendly guys around who help or act fair...i guess people will forget a little part of that because of you...that is the sad thing....reputation is everything!!! and you shouldnt tread other collectors in a way you dont want to be treadened....even "real" dealers like tom derby would be broke or out of the game after sometime if acting shady...

Shane Turgeon
06/27/05 09:57 AM

Adam, i'm absolutely appalled by this. I had always thought you were a good guy and respected you, despite some of the grumblings i'd heard about you. Needless to say, my opinion has totally changed.

Like Brian, i could care less that you made this or wanted to "experiment". But i'm floored that you had the audacity to actually *sell* it, TWICE, to members of this community!!! I certainly don't accept your meek "apology". The fact is, you took advantage of two honest collectors who were simply looking to add a HTF piece to thier collection. From the get go you should have stated, sorry guys, the piece is actually fake and i have no intention to sell. That would have been the right thing to do.

And as for your little revenge tactic on Mike, give me a break man....how immature can you be. As Mike said, ESB Chewies aren't that hard to find and $50 isn't really an insulting offer. All your admission has done is prove the worth of your character.

I'm sorry i once respected you but I'm sure that doesn't really mean anything to you does it?

YamSolo
06/27/05 10:10 AM

this reminds me of what yoda told luke in ESB. something to the effect that once you make the wrong decision and go down the path of the dark side, forever it will consume you. how sad things have turned out. :(

Chris_Morin
06/27/05 10:21 AM

Thanks to Mike for exposing this fraud. If it keeps just one person on these boards from buying anything from Adam L then it's been well worth bringing this issue to the public. Good luck trying to sell anything on these boards from now on Adam. Looks like your experiment was a resounding success. What a jackass.

prufrock
06/27/05 10:22 AM

Good name in man and woman...is the immediate jewel of their souls. Who steals my purse steals trash...But he that filches from me my good name robs me of that which not enriches him and makes me poor indeed. -- William Shakespeare's Othello

ChrisElliott
06/27/05 11:11 AM

I also have never dealt with Adam, thankfully. I just wonder how many people here that have dealt with Adam over the years are now going over the pieces they bought from him with a fine tooth comb??

How are we supposed to believe this is the only piece he has faked? Once a liar, always liar. It is pretty hard to believe anything Adam has to say.

After reading this post, I am not sure if you are truly sorry Adam. That was a pretty lame apology. What is with all the "smiley faces"?? You have some issues my friend.

Chris

Tyler_H
06/27/05 12:06 PM

I agree with Dave..

For what its worth, I have had a very good deal with Adam just last month.

James_Gallo
06/27/05 12:25 PM

Quote:
just want to note that coming clean is a good first step. It takes a lot of balls to do that...

Man I don't view this as coming clean. Adam had days to "come clean" and only after supposedly talking to a few people he all of a sudden comes "clean".

That is a load of bull.

Adam lied several times over and over. IMO he flat out cheated several people out of money and sold total crap that he knew was crap.

It wouldn't surprise me if he made all this experiment stuff up to try to justify the whole thing.

It's a shame that this one "experiment" will ruin a collector forever.

James G

JohnH
06/27/05 03:50 PM

I just emailed Chris G. this... since he had emailed me regarding this matter, and gave me some words of wisdom.

What did this all prove ?????

2. Foreign Carded figures are a hot commodity... look at those Meccano pieces that were on Ebay just the other day ;) , and yes these CDN Fett offers are definitly HTF.

3. Not all Rebelscumer's are truthful/honest/fully descriptive(as I am 99.999999999999% of the time with FActory sealed carded figures- AGAIN , the ABSOLUTE TRUTH)

4. If a deal seems too good to be true , it probably is( $145 IMO , is very low on a real-genuine piece like this in very displayable condition)

5. It is fairly easy /inexpensive to produce a carded figure like this(it takes a little time, in finding all the necessary components.... but for most US or Canadian MOC's, its possible)

Again, NEVER ONCE BEFORE(or after for that matter) Made a recard/reseal ..... till this GREEDO

I just thought I'd use the quote feature to preserve this message, in case Adam decided to come in and change his bull***t story around some more. :)

John

philraymond
06/27/05 04:23 PM

I haven't seen something come to an end like this since Fonzie jumped the shark on Happy Days.

It's like the 'circle of trust' on Meet the Parents, except Adam's actions were deliberate and intentional with no remorse whatsoever.

I made a mental note never to deal with Adam after the Wind-up R2-D2 situation a couple years ago. I honestly think he's mixing his meds or something. This is just too dispicable to believe.

Phil

iHu
06/27/05 04:46 PM

Well I can see why everyone is angry with Adam, the post here is really involved but signifies very little of substance. I'd seen Adam around the boards for a while, and I do believe I even met him at C3 (?) and have to say I never thought it would come to all this. He seemed like a decent character wherever I've come across him.

Adam, man oh man your paper-thin act of self-exoneration as you run circles around yourself is really out-of-character compared to what I've seen from you over the years. What happened, dude? Too bad, but yeah, you're losing credibility here at RS -- and in essence, that means you lose credibility in the SW vintage community. This, I'm sure, is not what you had envisioned and I only hope your dealings and things work out a little better in the future. I'm not sure that you are 100% scammer, and you're probably not, but you've got this "5%" little bit of scammy-ness in you that left a bad taste in everyone's mouth since this issue has become public.

SWaddict
06/27/05 04:56 PM

I don't know many of the folks on these boards as I have only been a member for 6 months or so, but I wonder how many people out there are thinking the same thing I am...Let it go! It sounds like no one on this board will deal with this guy again, why do we have to keep this thing going. Quite frankly I find threads on the toys and collecting much more interesting and useful.

iHu
06/27/05 05:12 PM

SWaddict wrote:
I don't know many of the folks on these boards as I have only been a member for 6 months or so, but I wonder how many people out there are thinking the same thing I am...Let it go! It sounds like no one on this board will deal with this guy again, why do we have to keep this thing going. Quite frankly I find threads on the toys and collecting much more interesting and useful.

I don't agree, it's not time to let it go yet and Adam has made us aware of that by starting this thread. I think lot sof people are kinda surprised and now we are dropping our opinions and first posts on the matter. Plus this thread stands as a warning to all the others, not to try scamming with customs even if it seems harmless.

Todd_Hudson
06/27/05 05:16 PM

Actually it would seem you have only been a member for 5 months or so, not that it matters to much :)

The problem is that not only has Adam started two threads now explaining his actions but the comments or answers he has given has done nothing to make anyone on the boards feel better. I don't remeber the R2 incident so we see yet another problem that has shown up.
Adam has twisted the truth and just lied about statements he has made. He attacks me personally and says I'm a liar yet I have proof of his statements. He has been sarcastic for awhile now, I started rereading some of his past posts in the last 12 months and truthfully the guy is really full of himself thinking he is an elitist in the hobby and making many comments trying to prove this. I dont buy anything about experiments and so forth. He is a liar and a SCAMMER and everyone should knpow this about him. Some people have said only 5% of him is bad but come on listen to his comments and his other fraudulent acts. The guy seems like he would try and pull a scam whenever he can.

I just dont buy the nonsense of not knowing about the other two incidents especially when he is a self proclaimed hobby expert or elitist. He then drops highly respected members names when trying to get people to buy his BS. Well I contacted a few of the people he has name dropped and its funny how their stories of the conversations are different then his.

In a email to me he says and I quote "Dont worry Todd, I'll be - in some way associated with collecting vintage probably long after you've passed away . Its not #1 about collecting vintage, as much as it is a love for the movies- origional trilogy mainly , so I will be around in some capacity." what does that mean anyways???????? Since its a love of the movies maybe he can quit Vintage and start collecting Mondern. I doubt anyone is going to give him a deal on prototypes anymore and more then likely everyone will charge him more unless he buys from ebay.

Lesson learned: 1.DON'T BE SUCH A NOOB!!!! 2.When caught fess up and ask for forgiveness, instead of continuing to lie and try and save face. 3. Most important thing: Don't be sarcastic when trying to answer people when YOU ARE IN THE WRONG.

Some people may forgive Adam in the future but I don't see him saying anything at this point that will help his cause. HE can only continue to bury himself further in the hole. Enjoy your holiday!!!!
-Todd-

Matt_Yanders
06/27/05 06:24 PM

Ok, I havent said anything yet, but this whole deal just sucks.

I never thought you to be the kind of guy to do something like this. I never bought anything from you, but I had considered it at one point in time. After this, I would have to say that I wouldn't even consider it now. Im glad you admitted to making the FAKE, "MOC" as you call it, figure. Coming clean there was a smart move. But the damage has already been done, and I would have to say that you are deserving of everything that has, and is, being said about you.

I know there are more people who have had bad dealings with you, hell how many more have shown up just since the start of these threads?

It just sucks. I avoid ebay because I dont trust it, there are too many people selling fakes. I place my trust in RS members and this is where I spend my money. I guess I will have to be even more careful even here on the forums, a place I call home.

I also really do think that you are trying to cover up the whole thing, and avoid taking responsibility. It wasnt an "experiment." I dont think you probably made this to sell, maybe im wrong and you did, but I think you made it for yourself and the idea of making money from it took over and you gave in and sold it.

The thing is, you dont seem sorry for it. Thats what is pissing people off. How many times have you used this icon in your posts? :/ That says SMARTA$$. Sure I use is myself sometimes, but only when im making a smarta$$ comment :/

I guess in a way this whole thing was good in the fact that I will now be watching even closer when I buy from fellow 'scum members. It sucks for everyone you have ripped off though. You owe them money, and unless you refund them COMPLETELY for all costs, you are a theif. You sold them a fake, they busted you. You owe them that at the very least.

-Matt

CanadianCollector
06/27/05 06:43 PM

Dave_Myatt wrote:
I just want to note that coming clean is a good first step. It takes a lot of balls to do that...

Dave,

Until Adam's willing to refund at the very least the $20 he took from the original Money Order I sent, I'm not going to considered this case closed. By your actions so far, you're a liar, a fraud and a cheat. You claim I disrespected me by giving what you considered a low offer on one piece. You've disrespected the scum community (and me) a lot worse with this little debacle.

I sent either $170 or $175 (I included more than what was needed to cover shipping), I'll have to dig my records at home out, and I received $155 U.S. back. I'm also out customs $15-$20 CDN, and my return shipping which I sent registered so that there could be no claim that the parcel never got there. (Boy I'm thanking my lucky stars)

I'm happy that Randy will be receiving the money he lost back, but now lets not forget Jim McCallum who bought something that you now admit having made.

Previous Thread #1. Previous Thread #2.

philraymond
06/27/05 07:07 PM

You know, we've been through this with Adam once before, if anyone remembers. Not the exact same situation, but dishonest nontheless. It looks like the two parties did come to an agreement, but only after a lot of kicking & screaming, and after Adam apparently found a better item to swap his with for the buyer.

I'm gonna take a wild guess and say that Adam does not work in customer service (perhaps the DMV).

Phil

James_Gallo
06/27/05 07:11 PM

Well guys I hate to add fuel to a fire but I think this thread applies here and needs to be read though. Boy it looks like we should all have seen this comming as the 2005 Adam Lovera was around and kicking in 2003.

THIS THREAD

James G

Jim_Mc_Callum
06/27/05 07:16 PM

It's the centrepiece of the collection now Micheal.

To those who have asked for us to let it go, read other posts then. Adam suggested to Todd that he will be collecting long after Todd is dead and that I should buy some more insurance for my collection. Those are threats! Not only did Adam eff with the community, he effed with some of my closest friends (the WookieMonster, Chomyn, Myatt and Hudson) and thats really what I take issue with. He didn't do anything to me THIS time, I just own the piece in question and by the way Adam it is never for sale. It is my holy grail piece now !!! :/ :/ :/ :/ :/ :/ :/ :/ :/ :/ :/ :/ :/ :/ :/ :/ :/ :/ :/ :/ :/ :/ :/ :/ :/ :/ :/ :/ :/ :/ :/ :/ :/ :/ :/ :/ :/ :/

Jim

Phillip_Johnson
06/27/05 08:35 PM

Well, Since the fire is brewing. I bought a SW 21 Back Vader from Adam a couple of years ago and as soon as I got it I noticed there was an indention under a price tag. I questioned if he put the price tag on it to cover the tear and he responded that he could not see through a price sticker. I put it up as one to learn by but I knew by looking at it it was a cover up and I think he knew I was aware but was playing the odds that I would keep it. From that point I never even glanced at anything he had for sale. Not 100% on topic with the deal above, but I think it shows a lack of respect and the depth he can go to make a buck. I would imagine he will claim not to remember this, but I still have the figure. Here is the thread.
21B vader

Kevin_Loftus
06/27/05 09:31 PM

Adam_Lovera wrote:
I just emailed Chris G. this... since he had emailed me regarding this matter, and gave me some words of wisdom.

I wonder: What were Chris G.'s words of wisdom? And, how long do you have to collect vintage figures before you figure out that re-seals are fakes?

The only thing this guy is sorry about is getting caught.

oceans11
06/27/05 09:50 PM

Phillip_Johnson wrote:
Well, Since the fire is brewing. I bought a SW 21 Back Vader from Adam a couple of years ago and as soon as I got it I noticed there was an indention under a price tag. I questioned if he put the price tag on it to cover the tear and he responded that he could not see through a price sticker. I put it up as one to learn by but I knew by looking at it it was a cover up and I think he knew I was aware but was playing the odds that I would keep it. From that point I never even glanced at anything he had for sale. Not 100% on topic with the deal above, but I think it shows a lack of respect and the depth he can go to make a buck. I would imagine he will claim not to remember this, but I still have the figure. Here is the thread.
21B vader

but the point is that this is exactly 100% on topic... so far that's three strikes by my count and that means you're out. haven't had dealings with adam myself but from everything i've seen in the postings it looks like he's learned a thing or two from shaun. quite sad to see a once respected forum member go down in flames like this.

don

ChrisGeorgoulias
06/27/05 11:23 PM

Kevin_Loftus wrote:

Adam_Lovera wrote:
I just emailed Chris G. this... since he had emailed me regarding this matter, and gave me some words of wisdom.

I wonder: What were Chris G.'s words of wisdom? And, how long do you have to collect vintage figures before you figure out that re-seals are fakes?

The only thing this guy is sorry about is getting caught.

Adam and I had bounced a lot of mail early this year concerning Micro prototypes so I thought I'd email him personally about this situation. I told him that a) his replies to this subject were lousy, b) people remember stuff like this for years, and c) $500 in sales wasn't worth all of this. After that he wrote the GREEDO posting.

How do you spot reseals? Sometimes it's hard, but if you look though the archive of this forum you will see example after example where people have pointed out flaws. Probably the best thing you can do is know what bubbles came with what figures, what repro bubbles look like, what punch holes should look like, what cardboard inserts look like, and what the customizing cardback CD images look like.

Or just buy AFA figures.... :P

-chris

Dave
06/28/05 10:36 AM

Adam_Lovera wrote:

I wanted to believe Adam. I really truly did hope this was an isolated case of dishonesty, but enough people have given testimonials stating that he's done them wrong with patch up jobs... Then this gets brought to my attention by another well respected member of our community:

02/11/03 05:12 PM

Adam_Lovera wrote: Hello All, I have 3 great looking origional Star Wars packages for sale right now. I am accepting all reasonable offers. If you have any questions, or would like me to send you pictures of the following packages, just email me and I'll be happy to be of service to you. *Star Wars Darth Vader 21-back (I believe it is a version A backing) MOC 1979
~Bubble is perfect, no dings/dents/cracks/lifting/yellowing, etc.
~Card is excellent overall. There is a price tag on the top left side(in the black area), with minor + major stress marks located around the price tag. Unpunched hanger. Light edge wear around the card. Great color front + back. Displays super-ultra great dispite the condition marks. A hard to find Vader package... much harder to find then a 12-back A,B, or C SOLD

*Star Wars Death Star Droid (version B backing I believe) MOC 1979
~Bubble is perfect, no dings/dents/cracks/yellowing/lifting/etc.
~Card is nice overall. There is stress marks around the hanger, left - right and top of hanger. Otherwise, the card is nice and straight, great color... crisp card. Displays super-mega nice.

*Star Wars Princess Leia Organa 12/32 Back MOC This is a very hard to find package... and was available in mid 1980.. as a small left over stock of SW. figures were found at Kenner, and were then stickered on the back of the package updating the package with an additional 20 figures. ~Bubble is very nice overall. There is one tiny ding on the top right corner of the bubble . Otherwise, there are no other dents, dings,cracks, yellowing, or lifting. ~Card front is Very nice. Punched-cleanly. No creases on the card front or back. On the back of the card, the sticker ad for the additional 20 figures was ripped where the POP is on the top-right side of the sticker. This does not go through the cardboard, and Leia is still 100% factory sealed. Overall, a very good package that displays excellent from the front !

*Palitoy ESB 41-back IG-88 MOC 1980
~This package has been restored ... so it is not completely 100% factory real from Palitoy. The cardback is real, and a sealed Kenner 41-back bubble area was sliced off a damaged card, and reattached on to this cardback. An inexpensive way to add this great figure to your collection, if a 100% real example does hit the open market, expect the piece to get $250 or more. ~Bubble is very nice, one small ding on top-right corner.. minor ~Card hanger is punched-cleanly. There is some small creasing to the top right corner, and edge wear at verious locations around the card. Package displays very well, considering its a restored cardback-package. Again, all packages are 100% factory sealed(execpt for IG-88), and never tampered with ...no reseals. There are NO touch-ups(ie. Pen marks, marker, etc.) of any kind on either one of the packages. All figures are 100% mint... no frosting/discoloration/molding. Thank you for your time reading this,

I was only able to link up 2 of the packages, links provided below:
http://64.49.221.207/pix/yoda1/12backLeia1.JPG
http://64.49.221.207/pix/yoda1/12backLeia4.JPG
http://64.49.221.207/pix/yoda1/12BackLeia6.JPG
http://64.49.221.207/pix/yoda1/Vader21A.JPG
http://64.49.221.207/pix/yoda1/vader21B2.JPG
http://64.49.221.207/pix/yoda1/vader21B3.JPG

Regards.... :)

[ 02-14-2003, 02:10 PM: Message edited by: Carba-Dyna-mite ]

the original post, assuming it doesn't get altered, can be found here: the damning evidence

That's it for me. I erged him to come clean, and in his confessional letter he lied again. Last nail in the coffin. So sad that Adam had us all fooled for so long.

WiredMike
06/28/05 10:41 AM

Dave remind me to never [censored] you off. And if I ever sell anything to you, I think I will ship it first and let you decide how nice it is!! :cool

YamSolo
06/28/05 10:46 AM

James_Gallo wrote:
Well guys I hate to add fuel to a fire but I think this thread applies here and needs to be read though. Boy it looks like we should all have seen this comming as the 2005 Adam Lovera was around and kicking in 2003.

THIS THREAD

James G

urghh.... i don't know how i could have missed that one.... there goes my last bit of a good impression of adam...

LANDO_COLT45
06/28/05 01:08 PM

I truly love this place.

Shawn_Byrne
06/28/05 03:40 PM

Todd Hudson wrote:

Quote:
2.When caught fess up and ask for forgiveness, instead of continuing to lie and try and save face.

Hey, it worked for Clinton!!!!!! :D :D :D

Just thought I'd add a little humor to this dark and dismal thread.

skye
06/28/05 03:48 PM

Well, I was away from the computer for the weekend, and came back to this debacle! Seeing as I was referred to directly and obliquely a few times, I thought I would chime in with my experience.

First off I should say that I consider Adam a friend, no matter what this thread has exposed about him as a collector.

It was I who bought the CDN 41 back from Adam. It was also I who bought the Clipper from him. (for photos, check out my site) I payed what I thought they were worth. Apparently, that was too much, and some think that Adam fleeced me.

While I know I did not get a steal, I am still content with the deal. Now that I am (somewhat) older and wiser in the hobby, I certainly would not have payed him as much as I did. But, I chaulk it up to the impatience of a new collector, which we all must learn from.

I do have a problem, however, with the fact that Adam claimed he sold the Canadian for $75. Now, I payed double that. Had I known they were so apparently abundant, I wouldn't have payed that much, but it seemed fair to me at the time. Obviously Adam wants everyone to think he sold it for $75 and not $150. You are free to deduce any conclusions you want by this particular lie. It did hurt me when I read it.

As I said, I do consider Adam a friend, as he was a generous and kind roomate at C3. We had many a steak and shake together and I can attest to the fact that he is a good person at heart. It seems as though he has deservedly lost his cred as a dealer, and he has payed pretty dearly for his dishonesty.

My last note would be to stay away from personal attacks about his character. It is fine to say that he can not be trusted anymore, and that he was shady throughout this business, but attacking his smiley faces and talking about "meds" just seems cruel. Just my opinion.

Todd_Hudson
06/28/05 04:30 PM

skye wrote:

Skye,
Before I address this I want to say I think your a great guy and meant nothing wrong by using you in some of my comments. As for not attacking him personally, I don't think that is possible. He has lied many of times and he has taken advantage of you while calling you a friend. I talked with another collector yesterday and he has anothe bomb shell he will be revealing about Mr. Lovera very soon. While talking with him we talked about the price he offered on the Clipper to both of us, it was funny how it was the same price. How would I have known that price if he didn't offer it to me. Plus I have the PM from him.The price was a couple hundred less.

It's very hard not to attack him personally when he takes advantage of people he calls friends and outrights lies and then made threatening remarks towards myself and Jim just for pointing out a fact. The smiley faces have been attacked because Adam's inputing them is clearly to be very sarcastic in his remarks.

Dave
06/28/05 05:34 PM

skye wrote:

It seems as though he has deservedly lost his cred as a dealer, and he has payed pretty dearly for his dishonesty.

Skye,

I think you mean "he was paid greatly for his dishonesty". Lying to people here was his doing. It was the people who dealt with him that paid dearly...

JohnA
06/28/05 06:10 PM

Where's Sociobiologist when you need him? His report could have saved a few people some problems. ;)

John

skye
06/28/05 06:55 PM

Dave_Myatt wrote:

skye wrote:

It seems as though he has deservedly lost his cred as a dealer, and he has payed pretty dearly for his dishonesty.

Skye,

I think you mean "he was paid greatly for his dishonesty". Lying to people here was his doing. It was the people who dealt with him that paid dearly...

Yes Dave, you are right, it was the others who really payed. And Todd, I see your points too, the smiley faces were snide, and the personal threats were waayyy out of order.

I guess it is just really hard to handle the disappointment of someone you trusted and dealt with revealing himself as a scammer.

The whole thing stinks, and I probably should have just stayed out of it. (I would throw a graemlin here, but I'm not sure which one to choose. Probably one of these guys is in order... :(

Adam_Lovera
06/28/05 11:05 PM

iHu wrote:
Well I can see why everyone is angry with Adam, the post here is really involved but signifies very little of substance. I'd seen Adam around the boards for a while, and I do believe I even met him at C3 (?) and have to say I never thought it would come to all this. He seemed like a decent character wherever I've come across him.

Dougles, well put.

Shane, I respect your perspective ... fully. Sorry you had to lock down those threads before... as others were getting out of line(as I also did in the past... and apologize again for my words/actions).

Dave:
"I just want to note that coming clean is a good first step. It takes a lot of balls to do that... "

Thanks for the kind words , your right.... but I believe its too late for me to make a contribution to the large majority of the threads here on RS. You have stuck up for me enough on the other threads... and I appreciate it bunches , however I do definitly deserve some kind of back-lash my way....... its understandable. 98.6% of my sales have been solid over the years...... but all it takes is that 1.4% to bring me down like a X-wing into the Death Star. Ideally, on Rebelscum... and even Ebay... its good to be at least a 99% or better, .... hopefully one day I will be there.

---- that origional FS thread, with the 41-back IG88 - I BOUGHT IT THAT WAY from that VERY SAME UK recard/reseal seller, way back in 2002- or so... for $50- or $60 , to see his actual work right before my eyes,...... that is ABSOLUTE TRUTH .

To Phillip: I do remember that Vader , and since it sounds like you are unhappy with it... if there is any way I can make good on my oversite , I'll do so.

To Todd Hudson, : 1. I have not made ANY suggestions to you(in a PM) of any "Death Threats" to you or Jim M. What I was saying was that "I'll more then likely be collecting vintage SW long after you have passed away" . Whether you want to read the "passed away" as meaning that *after your dead 40++ years from now , or "passed away" in terms of when you are done collecting vintage. I ment absolute NO HARM to you- Todd , or Jim McCallum......NONE. You completely took what I said out of context..... its THAT SIMPLE(and yes.. basically I should have said nothing over PM to you-my frustration getting the best of me- which is wrong). I wish the both of you continued success in the future(with collecting.. sure).... but hey, even in your private lives- isnt that even 100000000000000 X more important :/ ;)

2. Your very words: "I want to also note for public record that you ripped Skye off on the clipper, you charged him well more then you offered it to me for." . ***I remember offering the Clipper Chewie to two people about 1-2 years ago(one of whom was Derrek Ho..... if Skye would not have bought it, I would have liked to have seen Derek add it to his great collection). **I sold Skye the Clipper 12-back and CDN 41-back in a PACKAGE DEAL for $900. You can look at how you want to break down the $900 any way you want, personally.... to me piece by piece it was more like $825-Clipper , $75(even $100 is more then fair) = $900. To me, the Clipper rocks.... and is probably just as hard to find as a Palitoy 12-back Chewie(which C9's... when they do become available can/have gotten $1K + ). Now, with that said..... a $50 offer on the CDN 41-back is still a sad fact.

my statement to you Todd of ""Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, now you contact me back about that Todd. " I want put anymore but will gladly send it to anyone who requests it." .... is correct. Maybe was it the time you called me on the phone... and asked me about the Clipper Chewie ???? That was well over 1 year ago... probably 1.5 years ago, lot changes in that amount of time...even the value of a Clippper 12-back Chewie . Like Dave Myatt always says, "Its only worth what your willing to pay for it" ... and that is 110% true.

***** Also, dont confuse me from saying "Someone from Conneticut" , in that I was refering to A Rob. Yes, Rob is from Conn. (yes, 2 different Robs).............. , but I did not say "A" name, so dont jump to ANY conclusions.. please. Rob has done me enough favors over the years-good favors..... and we both bumped heads leading up to C3 on a issue I did not understand completely(still dont understand) but that is the past , and I dont like dueling on the past(I try to learn from it...... so I dont make future mistakes... but thats it). I wish Rob a good collecting future....... as he has been able to assemble some very nice items over the years.

To Jim :
I did not mean.. in any way any kind of harm to you-or your family- or anything in regards to me saying "you would have been better off spending that $80 on the Greedo , on a good insurance policy for your collection" - I was just speaking my point of view how the money would have been better spent... thats all.

"I bought it for nostalgic value and infamy..."The Piece that Drove Adam Lovera to collecting History".

.... well, your partially right. This Greedo piece will, by years end... drive me out of collecting MOC- Factory sealed carded figures(no more buying/selling/trading/collecting..... at all- PERIOD). I have MAYBE 10 , or so carded figures that I will be holding on to(that mean something to me.... and several happen to be CDN )

........ however, I'll always collect two other MAJOR vintage SW lines.... . , one of which has NOTHING to do with MOC- factory sealed bubbles/carded packages.

I am in the process of going through my MOC's... and selling them. I will be shutting down my FS thread in the vint. classifieds ....... as I do not expect anyone to buy from me here. IF, someone does decide to contact me(PM.... or email), asking questions... requesting to buy something , I'll always do my best to help out a collector obtain something they're looking to add to there collection(even if I dont have it... I'll hunt one down for them.. or point them in the right direction to then buy it from someone else). Thats how I've been over the years, and thats the way I'll continue to be in the future. Really, its not all about ME.. ME... ME , its not... never was, and never will be in the future.

To Mike: IF.... by me sending you the $20 will help this situation out ANY...... I can send along the money to you. If that helps take care of a chunk of your shipping expenses.

To Skye: bro... I told it like it is above- and if anyone is going to be proud of me right now, hope you are :/ Really, I know I opened a Bee's/Ant nest in all of this, and I'm doing my best to make ammends with the community... as BEST as I can....... its definitly not easy, not easy at all. I'll always consider you a friend.... especially the Pizza night at Indy- I'll never forget that... , and I'm sure you wont either :/ I still have the Orange letter you sent to me, with the Chewie sketch on the back of it....... I'll never give that up :/

**I just needed to set some things straight in this post/thread...... and I hope you all respect me for AT LEAST THAT , if nothing else.

-like I said, I dont expect to post much here on RS in the near-future , but when I do it will be on three things... and forum members, you can keep me to that(since this is all I really know anyways :D ) 1.my PRO-AFA stance, I dont mind being a advocate for them... mainly in terms of Authentication purposes. 2. Occationally outing auctions that are incorrectly listed on Ebay. IF, I know someone is looking for a particular item, and it is not properly listed on Ebay- I will PM or email them directly the info. I have done this COUNTLESS times over the years, Kyle Babbitt..... a MAJOR RECIPIENT :/ :D , thanks again for buying me that beer at C3 ;) 3. ANY relivent Micro Collection thread ......... that I can contribute to , in a solid fashion... I will chime in. Those are my three....... and I am holding myself to ONLY those, period(or threads about Adam Lovera).

Looks like I am the ultimate Rebel-Scum of all times, not exactly proud of this badge...

Dave
06/28/05 11:31 PM

I can’t speak for everyone here, but I hope I do speak for the majority, when I say that your contributions to this forum are not in question, nor should they be. That said, your selling reputation is indeed shot. Easiest way to solve that is continue to be a part of the community in all aspects but sales and/or trades.

You’ve got some good knowledge, and looking at our hobby from the historian point of view, we don’t need to drive people who know what you do away. I think it would be good for everyone to consider that before any further remarks are made.

I’m glad that you got called out, because you deserved it, and for the most part these last few days may be a learning lesson to anyone else who thinks ‘one little scam would be OK’. We all know it isn’t, and this now infamous Greedo is the living proof of that. Oddly enough, I have a feeling it’s infamy will someday move it to Blue Harvest standards in the community (so long as it stays in the community).

To look on the bright side, this should stand as an example to everyone how fragile our reputations are.

EDIT: I might be wrong with my thoughts here... I might change my mind later :)

4HERO
06/28/05 11:39 PM

Adam you need to say sorry to me also! i've now wasted 15 minutes of my life reading your useless crap!

Lee_Bullock
06/29/05 07:28 AM

4HERO wrote:
Adam you need to say sorry to me also! i've now wasted 15 minutes of my life reading your useless crap!

Dude, no need for that. Constructive contribution is needed here, this is not a circus this is crappy for everyone concerned....

Jim_Mc_Callum
06/29/05 10:13 AM

Lee: You shouldn't be so hard on 4Hero, I think that is a very relevant point and unlike the ABSOLUTE TRUTH, said with sincerity and smiley face free. A refreshing change.

Jim

CanadianCollector
06/29/05 12:31 PM

Adam_Lovera wrote:

To Mike: IF.... by me sending you the $20 will help this situation out ANY...... I can send along the money to you. If that helps take care of a chunk of your shipping expenses.

Adam,

I'd appreciate if you donated the $15 or $20 to ToysRGus to help with the running of the site:

http://s1.amazon.com/exec/varzea/pay/TVN83C8Q31KYW/058-7638237-5759462

Rather than have my money back, this would let it go towards furthering the hobby where it would benefit everyone.

And if you're serious about acquiring a Canadian Micro Tie Fighter, you'll have to deal with Todd Hudson as he has the only Micro Tie Fighter I know of other than mine. (I believe that his was featured in Jim McCallum's book).

-Michael

Dave
06/29/05 12:36 PM

Todd... DUDE!!! I need that Micro TIE!!! :)

really.

Dane
06/29/05 08:46 PM

well i know where I would let that Tie go to...... lets see what todd says. :D

Adam_Lovera
06/29/05 11:44 PM

Mike,

Great idea. I have just made a payment to the Archive fund for the total of $35 ..... that looks like this:

*$17 contribution from Mike C. ;) *$17 contribution from Myself.. matching Mike C. *$1 contribution from Todd Hudson :/ , thought I'd include him in on the whole thing(not exactly sure why.. maybe because of all the nice things that he had to say to/about me in the past ).... to round it up to $35

That is my first(and hopefully not last) contribution to the Archive fund. I've bothered Mensinger many/many times in the last year, or so.. putting items from my collection on the archive(I'd rather do that, then have a web-shots page,etc.). Thanks again Mike !

*Maybe one of these days... I'll make it on the list of "contributers" to the archive.... that'd be nice :D

PEACE EVERYONE- and my apologies once again. I'll only be posting on those three subject primarily- and will be SLOWLY starting a NEW minor focus in the coming years 2006++ --- that is related to something Jim McCallum + Derek Ho enjoys collecting :)

BTW, Mike... I am in no rush to aquire a CDN Micro Tie, as I know Rob A. needs one- and will probably hook up a deal with Todd for it. I'll have to hunt for my own on Ebay, etc. in the coming years.... it'll give me something to look forward to in the future.... amoungst other things(C4 ???? :/ :) )

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