Eric Sansoni
March 3 1998
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting.misc
It certainly doesn't require any specialized knowledge beyond simply being
a collector to see this article is poorly researched, misleading,
inaccurate, and simply a terrible representation of the collecting community
to the general public. I think it's imperative that people write in with
any complaints. The media survives by delivering stories that people want
to read...there will probably be many people in charge of the paper that
will take notice of a bunch of negative comments. The story hasn't gone
that far yet, so here's a chance to make sure it doesn't, or gets reworked
before it does. Sure you might hurt your own credibility if you yourself
comment on evidence or testimony that isn't your own and that you can't
prove, but it doesn't matter what or who inspired you to write. Flak is
flak. It's the amateurish journalism and the complete failure to fairly
represent the values, interests, and dynamics of the collecting community
that disappoints me with this coverage, and that's what my comments will
reflect. By virtue of being published in the public media, this article is
a disservice to the public and all collectors, not just the principals
involved. Taken with the handful of other mass media articles that have
covered Star Wars or toy collecting, it represents a disturbing lack of
ability by journalists to find the truth or facts in any such story.
-Eric S.
Gus Lopez
March 3 1998
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting.misc
I sent off my letter in response to Rick Kenney's article in The Winter
Haven News Chief and the AP wire. I cc'ed copies to the News Chief
editorial staff, James Kipling of Hasbro, the Associated Press, and Howard
Roffman of Lucasfilm.
If you're thinking of writing, here are some addresses that may be handy:
Editor
Winter Haven News Chief
P.O. Box 1440
Winter Haven, FL 33882
Associated Press
50 Rockafeller Plaza
4th Floor, News
New York, NY 10020
Howard Roffman
Lucasfilm, Ltd.
P.O. Box 2009
San Rafael, CA 94912
I disagree with chris about writing in--I think a good number of
well-written responses to the article are sure to get more attention than
letters from just those of us directly involved. If you have something to
say, do say it, but be careful to qualify all statements, especially those
about Ms. Brooks.
Gus
Michael Mierzwa
March 3 1998
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting.misc
DWonnenberg wrote:
> I think you're right on Chris. Obviously most people here are behind
> you on this, and would like to help in any way. I just don't think that
> people not involved in the issue directly could do much good. Sending
> letters to the newspaper saying "you suck", or "your story was
> unprofessional" is probably not going to help.
Personally I agree with Eric on this issue. The newspaper did things
that IMHO are boardline unprofessional. The basic plea from Mrs. Brooks
in the article was that she has been discredited. So the newspaper
takes up her story and paints her as a mother of four who is basically
shafted by some of the collecting community.
But THEN, the same article contains a comment by a Hasbro employee in
which his quote is placed in such as way to name a SINGLE individual ...
and in the letter's context it would appear that Hasbro (and maybe Mrs.
Brooks) think he is selling figures that he is calling unproduced (which
in the context of the rest of the letter would mean he is a fraud). :(
That is a huge misrepresentation and _could_ have been avoided IMHO if
the author of the article contacted Ron as well.
Basically, the author has in a way set up an article that casts Ron in a
bad light. The sad thing, is it is pretty easy to contact Ron and I
wonder if any attempt was made. While I think it is important for the
media to find thought provoking and even exposing stories, it is of
fundamental importance that _all_ sides of an issue be presented so that
the reading public, and NOT the author can pass judgement. :(
And on to Eric's issue, I think the fact that "the Earth" was labeled as
a "Web" store, hints to the mistrustful attitude of either the author or
Mrs. Brooks of the internet. Certainly there is good reason to have
your guard up while on the net, but from my personal point of view, "the
Earth" is also a mail order company, just like another other. I have
bought figure stands from them and was very pleased with their service.
And I learned of them through _print_. That is I saw them advertise not
on the "Web", but in "Toy Shop".
Basically the article appears to have been written by someone who is
listening to primarily one side of a story and then it is constructed
such that biases against the other parties show through. (Part of me
wonders where the author got that quote for the Hasbro exec. ... I
really wonder if Mrs. Brooks handed this letter to the author after
writing to them herself.)
I myself think that the author of that article and also the editor who
printed it should be made aware that I do not appreciate this style of
writing or presentation of facts.
> Just an opinion,
Right, but that IS the point. It hopefully is clear that your post and
my post are opinions ... that newspaper article was as well, but my fear
is that in some people's minds conviction has already been made. That
happens, but when you name individuals, then you really need to either
lay down some hard facts and/or write about several sides of the story.
How hard would it have been to dig up one of Ron's old FS posts and see
what he does call his customs. I'm sure that he does claim they are
prototypes ... but if I didn't know and read that article ... well I
think we all get the idea.
Michael Mierzwa
Pamela Green
March 3 1998
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting.misc
>i'm at odds as to whether or not to suggest that people write in. you (gus),
>ron and myself already have ours done and we're gathering addresses of people
>to send them to. i almost think that if too many people write in, then it
>will water down the issue. since the three of us are the most "involved"
>around here, and know many more of the details, our letters would probably
>have a better impact. especially since it's not a major issue as far as the
>newspaper goes. i mean we have literally pages of information regarding the
>issue and the problems with her accusations. not really opinions on the
>subject, but rather direct rebuttals for what she has stated in public and in
>private and this may be better in the end.
I'll have to disagree on this point, chris. Though I'm certain you're
going to send in an excellent letter, I think there are issues beyond the
technical points that folks like you and Ron will address.
This is a case of incredibly sloppy journalism. The article mentions Ron
Salvatore, and The Earth, *by name*, and yet no attempt that I could
discern was made to contact them. (Ron is a frequent poster here, and The
Earth runs regular Toy Shop ads, so these people are not exactly what you
would call elusive.) The accusations in the article were supposedly based
on a certain Hasbro internal document. Does anybody really believe that a
company as conservative and cautious as Hasbro would accuse these people,
by name, of illegal activities in a document meant for public consumption?
I've often been disheartened by the mainstream media's clumsy attempts to
report on the Star Wars collecting hobby. Remember the Wall Street
Journal's article on the scalper who was supposedly raking in tens of
thousands of dollars a year from his "profession?" I've gritted my teeth
at this stuff, like everybody else, but so far, I haven't actually *done*
anything. I'm sorry the situation has degenerated to the point that an
article about Star Wars collecting that was distributed on the AP newswire
basically repeats what I believe to be slanderous remarks from a
tragically unbalanced person about some of my fellow collectors. I
believe it's time collectors do something about this situation, and I
believe a flood of letters to the source of this article would be a good
and appropriate start.
--Pam
Gus Lopez
March 3 1998
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting.misc
>But THEN, the same article contains a comment by a Hasbro employee in
>which his quote is placed in such as way to name a SINGLE individual ...
>and in the letter's context it would appear that Hasbro (and maybe Mrs.
>Brooks) think he is selling figures that he is calling unproduced (which
>in the context of the rest of the letter would mean he is a fraud). :(
>That is a huge misrepresentation and _could_ have been avoided IMHO if
>the author of the article contacted Ron as well.
...
>such that biases against the other parties show through. (Part of me
>wonders where the author got that quote for the Hasbro exec. ... I
>really wonder if Mrs. Brooks handed this letter to the author after
>writing to them herself.)
This is the part that's really confusing me. It seems to me that a letter
that Hasbro legal supposedly composed that accuses Ron Salvatore and the
Earth of criminal activity is not the type of document that is on public
record. Companies are not typically in the business of making public
assertions about the integrity of individuals or the Earth and Ron and
others like them could easily sue the pants off Hasbro for defamation and
slander.
So, if it's not a public document, how then, did Ms. Brooks or the
reporter get access to this document? Did the reporter just take Brooks'
word that Hasbro had relayed these claims to Lucasfilm? Did Hasbro relay
the contents of the letter to the reporter? I'm not a lawyer, but it
seems to me that Ron and the Earth could subpoena these supposed documents
very easily if they wanted to pursue it and find out what type of
"investigation" Hasbro and Lucasfilm really have on them, if there's any
"investigation" at all.
My hunch is that a lot of these claims are all in Ms. Brooks' imagination,
but there might be a grain of truth to the "investigation" bit, because I
believe that Ms. Brooks would stop at nothing to call around LFL, Hasbro,
gov't agencies etc. until she found someone willing to believe this
"mother of four"'s sob story (let the violins start playing...) and carry
out the retaliation she desires.
Gus
stuntboy
March 3 1998
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting.misc
"MegatronForever" wrote:
> Just want to get a couple of opinions on what this situation will do to
> those manufacturing repros and custom figures.
> Will this issue enlist Hasbro and LFM in a battle against the small (yet
> unauthorized) market for custom figures and reproductions?
they've known about custom stuff for quite awhile. as long as people aren't
bootlegging current product i think everyone is ok.
remember folks, this isn't a case of lfl cracking down on customizing. the
article stated that fakes were being sold as originals. nothing was mentioned
about reproductions or customizing. as far as the readers are concerned,
they don't even know ron's stuff is made and sold as resin repros. only the
people on these newsgroups know what the real story is.
neither ron nor the earth were contacted by lfl or kenner because i don't
think they really care. they are concerned with the new toys, not the vintage
stuff.
as much as we're making a big deal out of it, most likely the truth is that
nobody but us really gives a flip. and maybe they shouldn't because i
probably wouldn't care if this was a beanie baby fiasco. we just want to set
the record straight because ignoring it might let it die quickly, but we don't
want her to have the last (public) word on the subject.
-chris
Michael Mierzwa
March 3 1998
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting.misc
> Personally I agree with Eric on this issue. The newspaper did things
> that IMHO are boardline unprofessional. The basic plea from Mrs. Brooks
> in the article was that she has been discredited. So the newspaper
> takes up her story and paints her as a mother of four who is basically
> shafted by some of the collecting community.
[snip]
But now after thinking about this for another couple hours (I have a 1
hour commute each way ... good for thinking, incredibly good for
thinking and not bad for stopping on toy runs) ... but to the point, I'm
split. I've written a letter and can send it, but I certainly what to
respect the wishes of Chris, Ron, Gus and anybody else who might be
involved. :/
Argh! It makes me remember a ST:TNG episode in which Data tries to
predict something another character, Riker, is going to do. "Knowing
that we know his behavior the commander will change his ..." ;)
But to those who have not written a letter, here is something I do
whenever I write letters. I write them, go to bed, and then read them
aloud the next day and proof them. Rarely should something be sent in
the heat of the moment! :)
Michael Mierzwa
Michael Mierzwa
March 3 1998
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting.misc
Whoops, I just read Ron's and Pam's encouragements to not _not_ write
letters ... my head is spinning. ;) I think I feel like a Jawa caught
being chasing after a golden treasure in the middle of Dune Sea and sure
fire easy catch tin can rolling through the Junland Wastes.
> This is the part that's really confusing me. It seems to me that a letter
> that Hasbro legal supposedly composed that accuses Ron Salvatore and the
> Earth of criminal activity is not the type of document that is on public
> record. Companies are not typically in the business of making public
> assertions about the integrity of individuals or the Earth and Ron and
> others like them could easily sue the pants off Hasbro for defamation and
> slander.
Right, I'm aware that large companies tend to have equally large legal
departments. I, too, find it very odd that a lawyer would make
accusations without proof. Personally I think it might be VERY
interesting to contact the Earth and first let them know that somebody
is accusing them of fraud. Second to ask them if they have EVER done
business any (and I'm more interested in one party here) of the parties
named in the article. :(
There is a quote from Thunderball, "the small fish I throw back in the
water". It is NOT cost effective to chase after a small fish ... and
frankly from what I see here on the internet, Ron is a very small fish
(no offense Ron, as I'm like fish food in the eyes of Kenner). :)
> So, if it's not a public document, how then, did Ms. Brooks or the
> reporter get access to this document?
Again, I think somebody involved should write a letter with the article
as an attachment to Hasbro and ask for a copy of the full letter. My
bet is the reporter did get the letter _not_ from Hasbro. I'll let
everyone piece together other possible sources, but I have do have at
least another.
SPECULATION: I remember a town I lived in while in South Texas has a
small town newspaper complete with local staff writers and AP articles.
Local interest stories were the point of the paper, and IMHO this
situtation does appear like a local spotlight on a neighbor and mother
of four. However my _guess_ (that is a wild guess people) is that the
writer _might_ have known the author. I'm not impling anything bad
here, I have friends and if I was an author I would entertain ideas for
articles. And they might just be passing friends like the people you
see at the grocery store or friends of friends. Anyway it is my _guess_
that the author trusts Ms. Brooks.
> Did the reporter just take Brooks'
> word that Hasbro had relayed these claims to Lucasfilm?
This is very good question. I think contacting both Hasbro and
Lucasfilm would be a good idea, as they should have at least some idea
of the distribution of this letter. Is it public and sent to
everybody? Was it just sent to a few customers? Was it internal? Does
it exist?
> Did Hasbro relay
> the contents of the letter to the reporter? I'm not a lawyer, but it
> seems to me that Ron and the Earth could subpoena these supposed documents
> very easily if they wanted to pursue it and find out what type of
> "investigation" Hasbro and Lucasfilm really have on them, if there's any
> "investigation" at all.
They could easily start by just asking Hasbro about the letter. The
worst thing Hasbro could say is an investigation is pending and we can't
talk about it ... then it is time to get legal experts. But the letter
is an important focus [HINT HINT HINT]. ;)
Michael Mierzwa
Salfamily
March 4 1998
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting.misc
>I'll have to disagree on this point, chris. Though I'm certain you're
>going to send in an excellent letter, I think there are issues beyond the
>technical points that folks like you and Ron will address.
Yes, this is key. As I said in another post of mine in this thread: stick to
the obvious inaccuracies of what was printed in that article and keep it civil.
I think there's plenty there that an experienced collector can attack without
getting into, as Pam calls them, "technical points."
Really, your support in this would be appreciated and would really show the
folks behind this piece the well-informed nature of the SW collecting community
Below is a copy of my very long, very overwrought letter to the editor. They
asked for it!! :^)
ron
--------------------------------------------
Editor
Winter Haven News Chief
P.O. Box 1440
Winter Haven, FL 33882
Dear Editor:
The recent Associated Press article by Rick Kenney, regarding the
incredible "find" of Star Wars toys made by Virginia Jarvis Brooks has been
brought to my attention by a number of people within the Star Wars collecting
community. Though my association with Ms. Brooks has not been a long one, it
continues to reach new heights of absurdity, as she continues her apparent
efforts at boosting the value of her very common figurines by discounting rarer
figures which experienced collectors prize more. The article appears less than
well researched, biased, and supports an apparent agenda on Ms. Brooks' part
that runs entirely contrary to a concern for Star Wars collectors, Star Wars
collecting, or the Star Wars franchise in a broad sense.
The article implies that Ms. Brooks' figures have a value on the order of
"hundreds of thousands of dollars," and, furthermore, that individuals such as
myself and the Earth in Cincinnati are responsible for their devaluation.
Neither of these statements has any factual basis. Unpainted Micro Collection
figures, which is what the article suggests she has, have, at best, a value of
between $5 and $15 each, and have been available on the collector's market for
the last 15 years without a significant shift in average selling price. This
information is readily available to anyone who chooses to look for it, via
marketplace publications such as Toy Shop, as well as several well-known and
widely available price guides (the first edition of Tomart's Price Guide To
Worldwide Star Wars Collectibles lists such figures at $1 to $3 each). If
anything, the price of unpainted Micro Collection figures has risen slightly
since that guide's 1994 date of publication. To suggest that anyone has had a
hand in diminishing the value of Ms. Brooks' 328 figures is absurd and, I might
add, slanderous to the individuals at which the accusation is directed (myself
included).
Among a great many other things, the article fails to mention the
discrepancy between unpainted versions of widely-marketed Micro Collection
figurines, and unreleased, yet prototyped figures which never made it to stores
or anything close to mass-production. The latter category encompasses both
near-production figurines, of a quality identical to Ms. Brooks', and hand-made
conceptual figures, made both by Kenner and outside companies, which aided
Kenner in the development of certain toys. The difference in market value
between Ms. Brooks' regular production figures, sold in painted form in
playsets throughout the United States and Canada, and an unreleased prototype
is, for obvious reasons of supply, exponential. Whereas Ms. Brooks' figures
were produced in quantities stretching into the millions, there are probably
less than fifty of each of the various pre-mass production pieces known to
exist today. Anyone who looks at the situation needs to keep this discrepancy
in mind if she wishes to properly understand what is going on in terms of
prices and availability. What Ms. Brooks has are unpainted examples of figures
which could be bought at any toy store in the early 1980's, a fact which Ms.
Brooks seems to have been unwilling to accept. In not presenting the reality
of the marketplace, the article misleads readers, as well as misreprents the
individuals it implicates.
Ms. Brooks' most outrageous claim, however, is that the few unreleased
Micro Collection figures that are valuable and are highly sought-after by
collectors, are all the product of a counterfeiting conspiracy. The Micro
Collection was terminated following its 1982 debut and prior to its 1983
extension, due to unsatisfactory sales. Left in the lurch were several
playsets, most notably the Hoth Bacta Chamber and Bespin Torture Chamber, which
would have come with four and six new figures, respectively. That these toys
reached it to a near-production stage is a widely-proven and incontestable
fact, and that they exist today in significant, if limited numbers is evidenced
not only by their place in private collections the world over, but by their
presence in Kenner photographs and literature of the time. I could produce
photographic and physical evidence of unproduced, though prototyped, toys and
describe their production process in depth; I could, based on extensive
personal research, provide a list stating which figures were concepted, which
were prototyped, and what stage of production each of these figures reached; in
doing so, I could cite personal correspondences with Kenner designers and
engineers attesting to the creation of these toys. But that's been done. This
information was provided to Ms. Brooks some 4 months ago, by myself and two
other experts in this area, and Ms. Brooks chose to discount it. To anyone
seeking the proof I am here citing, I would direct them to the Star Wars
Collectors Archive web site, at http://www.toysrgus.com/, where it is all
collected and documented, as well as to issue # 60 of Action Figure News and
Toy Review, which ran a comprehensive article on nearly-produced Micro
Collection toys. This is the evidence at hand; evidence that has been years in
the collecting. The burden of proof lies in Ms. Brooks' hands, and she has yet
to prove anything.
Lastly, the article implies that I have in some way been involved in the
counterfeiting of Kenner products. I have indeed provided replicas of the ten
unreleased Bacta and Torture Chamber figures to the collecting community. This
was done in an honest, forthright fashion, and I have neither profited from nor
misrepresented these figures as genuine at any time. The figures are made from
a plastic-like resin, bear a number on their bases and have not exceeded a
production number over thirty pieces each. In short, there is no way that they
could ever be mistaken for metal originals, and I have taken every precaution
to insure that they wouldn't be. In doing this, I have allowed collectors to
own and appreciate these items at a negligible cost. On a personal level, it
is something I have enjoyed immensely, as I derive a great deal of satisfaction
from communicating with fellow collectors and bolstering interest and
enthusiasm for the hobby I love. Ms. Brooks' motive, on the other hand,
appears to encompass nothing more than an economic interest, and the article's
support of it is, quite frankly, disheartening.
I do not wish to cause Ms. Brooks problems and I hope her "find"
eventually meets her expectations. There is a truth here, however; a truth
that is well-supported, exhaustively researched, and free of any hint of
dishonesty or malice. It is a truth that has been proven by collectors and
upheld by the collecting community, by people who are concerned for the hobby's
welfare and who have dedicated a large part of their lives involved with and
promoting it. Ms. Brooks is not one of these people. Given the actual facts,
how your readers wish to interpret the situation is entirely up to them. What
I take issue with, however, is the misrepresentation, both of myself, as well
as the Earth (a long-respected Star Wars collectibles store), as not only
having had a deterimental effect on the marketplace, but in engaging in the
illegal production and sale of counterfeit Micro Collection figurines. These
are false implications and the article does not support them in even the
slightest of ways, a quality made all the more apparent when one considers that
I was not even contacted for a comment on the article I was named in. This is
shoddy work, and I will accept nothing less than a clarification of the
situation and a retraction of the implications.
Sincerely,
Ronald Salvatore
cc:
Rick Kenney
Associated Press
Howard Roffman, Lucasfilm, Ltd.
James M. Kipling, Hasbro, Inc.
Gus Lopez
March 4 1998
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting.misc
>Personally I think it might be VERY
>interesting to contact the Earth and first let them know that somebody
>is accusing them of fraud.
Done.
>Second to ask them if they have EVER done
>business any (and I'm more interested in one party here) of the parties
>named in the article. :(
They seemed to indicate that they have never done business with the
parties named in the article.
>There is a quote from Thunderball, "the small fish I throw back in the
>water". It is NOT cost effective to chase after a small fish ... and
>frankly from what I see here on the internet, Ron is a very small fish
>(no offense Ron, as I'm like fish food in the eyes of Kenner). :)
From a certain point of view, that is certainly true. From another point
of view, the situation he's in has sure created a large uproar and has
been noticed by Lucasfilm, Hasbro, and the Associated Press.
Frankly, I'd rather be in his position right now than Rick Kenney's--'tis
much better to be wrongfully accused of something than to be committing
libel (in my opinion).
>Again, I think somebody involved should write a letter with the article
>as an attachment to Hasbro and ask for a copy of the full letter. My
>bet is the reporter did get the letter _not_ from Hasbro. I'll let
It'll be interesting to see if Hasbro responds.
>of four. However my _guess_ (that is a wild guess people) is that the
>writer _might_ have known the author. I'm not impling anything bad
>here, I have friends and if I was an author I would entertain ideas for
>articles. And they might just be passing friends like the people you
>see at the grocery store or friends of friends. Anyway it is my _guess_
>that the author trusts Ms. Brooks.
I think it's entirely possible that she offered this writer a monetary
reward for writing the article. A reliable source mentioned to me that
she had attempted this in the past to promote her "find" (i.e. a
kickback).
>This is very good question. I think contacting both Hasbro and
>Lucasfilm would be a good idea, as they should have at least some idea
>of the distribution of this letter. Is it public and sent to
>everybody? Was it just sent to a few customers? Was it internal? Does
>it exist?
Those might be good questions for someone's letter to the
editor/LFL/Kenner. I concentrated on the libel/unconfirmed "facts" issue
in my letter.
Salfamily
March 4 1998
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting.misc
>Whoops, I just read Ron's and Pam's encouragements to not _not_ write
>letters ... my head is spinning. ;) I think I feel like a Jawa caught
>being chasing after a golden treasure in the middle of Dune Sea and sure
>fire easy catch tin can rolling through the Junland Wastes.
Though it wasn't clear, my original statement that it would be best *not* to
write letters was primarily aimed at letters dealing with anything other then
the salient issues of the article, namely, the counterfeiting of figures and
the subsequent devaluation of unpainted Micros.
There's alot about customizing, prototypes, the production process, and
previous encounters with VJB that either shouldn't be gotten into by people who
haven't been involved, or doesn't really get to the heart of the matter.
There are other issues, however, and several good letters from several people
would make an impact.
One paper that ran the story, the St. Petersburg Times, has an email address.
You can send letters to: lett...@sptimes.com
ron
Brennan Swain
March 4 1998
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting.misc
> They could easily start by just asking Hasbro about the letter. The
> worst thing Hasbro could say is an investigation is pending and we can't
> talk about it ... then it is time to get legal experts. But the letter
> is an important focus [HINT HINT HINT]. ;)
> Michael Mierzwa
It would take some type of litigation before the letter could actually
be obtained from Hasbro during the discovery process. Although, if you
say "pretty please" maybe they'll let you have it. ;^)
Brennan
Eric Sansoni
March 4 1998
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting.misc
>There is a quote from Thunderball, "the small fish I throw back in the
>water". It is NOT cost effective to chase after a small fish ... and
>frankly from what I see here on the internet, Ron is a very small fish
>(no offense Ron, as I'm like fish food in the eyes of Kenner). :)
Nevertheless there is a risk involved. Remember, this is a time when a
non-commerical web sites can one day get a threatening letter to shut
down their site, from the legal department of a company who feels their
intellectual property rights are violated. It doesn't mean you have to
comply, but how many people will have the guts to continue? There is the
fear that you will have absolutely no grounds for ignorance if you didn't
shut down and they did press the issue further. The companies do it because
they fear precedent. Someone else could do a larger rights violation, and
point to the smaller one as precedent that it's allowable. They're afraid
of a snowball effect. The last thing I would do if I were in Ron's position
is call Lucasfilm's or Kenner's attention to myself in any way. It's highly
unlikely that he would ever get back a letter suggesting that he should
continue selling copies of SW toys. Especially with Kenner involved, who
has never seemed to be the most understanding of the collecting community.
stuntboy
March 4 1998
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting.misc
> Yes, this is key. As I said in another post of mine in this thread: stick
> to the obvious inaccuracies of what was printed in that article and keep it
> civil. I think there's plenty there that an experienced collector can attack
> without getting into, as Pam calls them, "technical points." though there are
> plenty. :^)
i agree that people should stick to the points in the article and base the
rest on what you know about the micro stuff yourself. some of the points
about what she's done and whatnot are probably better left to those of us who
have had contact with her.
> Below is a copy of my very long, very overwrought letter to the editor. They
> asked for it!! :^)
well, continuing this tradition. here is the manifesto i came up with. these
letters are long, but there are just too many points to cover in a brief
letter. especially when you consider that you first have to educate the
reader on what in the heck you're even talking about. :^)
------
Chris Georgoulias
xxxxxx
xxxxxx
xxxxxx
stunt...@ols.net
March 3, 1998
Editor
Winter Haven News Chief
P.O. Box 1440
Winter Haven, FL 33882
Dear Editor:
I’m writing concerning the February 23,1998 Associated Press story titled
“Fakes Affecting Value of Rare Collectibles” in which a woman named Virginia
Jarvis Brooks claims that a fraud has been committed against her and the
entire Star Wars collecting marketplace. I believe that what we actually have
here is a $200,000 case of sour grapes.
The problem at hand is not whether there is a conspiracy to devalue Ms.
Brook’s items, but that knowing too little can put undue strain on a person.
Although I was not mentioned by name by Ms. Brooks, I can assure you that I am
one of the “internet collectors” that she refers to in the article. Realize
also that the comments I make here are based only on what I know about these
events and are my opinion of the situation. Getting this out of the way I
will begin with the fact that I, Gus Lopez and Ron Salvatore were first
contacted in October 1997 by two people named “Lou” and “Tim” who shared the
same email address, took over for one another during the exchanges and, not
surprisingly, came across with a tone similar to the person we would later
find out to be Virginia Jarvis Brooks. We now believe that “Lou” and “Tim”
were names Ms. Brooks herself was using. From the first instant, the
accusations were flying - that we were dead wrong about what we had written in
Mr. Lopez’ web site (www.toysrgus.com) about items that were related to what
she had. The web site is a collaborative effort showcasing items from
collections all over the world in a museum-like environment and is quite
well-known in the collecting community. Items are grouped into categories and
the image of each item is accompanied by a description. Because of personal
interests and collecting focus, many of the items in the archive are of
“prototypes” or items that were predecessors to the toys made by Kenner. Some
of the prototypes show various stages of pre-production while others show
items that were conceived but never produced for one reason or another.
What Ms. Brooks apparently bought 15 years ago for $15 are 328 unpainted
figures from Kenner’s 1982 “Micro Collection”. This was a new line of toys
featuring miniature metal figurines packed with small plastic playsets. All
told, there were well over 5 dozen different figures created to accompany the
assortment of playsets and vehicles. These toys were (and still are) quite
common on the collector’s market even still mint in original packaging. The
large number of these toys made spilled over into the amount of items that
were available to people inside Kenner, namely the figures themselves. These
items quite frequently made their way to flea markets and swap meets which is
precisely where Ms. Brooks states that she bought collectibles. As we can see
by the sheer size of Ms. Brooks’ stockpile, unpainted versions of these
production figures were easily found and are still relatively easy and cheap
to obtain. In fact, the store mentioned in the article, The Earth, sells
these very same figures for only a few dollars each since they are in such
abundance. Now, these unpainted figures were not available to consumers or
generally circulated, so they do garner some appreciation by collectors who
desire items that differ from “the norm”. Also, there were at least 5
playsets (including about 2 dozen figures) conceived by Kenner for the 1983
season but that never materialized into items that went into production.
Proof of the existence of several of these playsets and their figures has come
about from various collectors, ex-Kenner employees and from trade magazines
such as Action Figure Digest and Action Figure News and Toy Review. Much of
this information is gathered and presented on the web site mentioned earlier.
It is pretty easy to understand why collectors would want items from these
playsets since they never saw the light of day as far as production went. It
is my opinion that this is where Ms. Brooks fails to realize exactly what she
has. The figures Ms. Brooks has seen selling for upwards of $600 each are
from two of these unproduced playsets which got farther along in the
conceptual process than any of the rest because examples of near-production
quality components exist today. None of the figures in her collection are of
this type and this apparently has infuriated her. We believe that she talked
about the value of her collection based on these $600 prices. We believe that
when Virginia contacted people “in the know” about her items she did not like
to hear a worth of “a few dollars each” when she had seen “similar” items
selling for $600 each. In fact, at one point, she was saying that her 328
figures, which she apparently bought for a TOTAL of about $15, were worth
$100,000 EACH! She stated that she decided to contact Kenner for more
“official” information through their customer service number. Mind you, a
few of us had done quite a bit more research into the history of these items
than she or any Kenner person would ever have. This includes flying to
Cincinnati, Ohio (homebase of Kenner) twice and talking to ex-Kenner employees
and collectors who have items in their possession. These trips were not
related to the situation at hand, but for general knowledge of the hobby. It
is my opinion that what information Ms. Brooks supposedly found from her
Kenner contacts is incomplete at best. Her sources supposedly state that only
certain items ever went to a vendor for manufacture, but these do not include
any of the “unproduced” items. However, this difference between “produced”
and “unproduced” is pretty self-explanatory. It was the assumption of
Kenner’s James Golden and Ms. Brooks that anything that did not show up on
this old paperwork was never even conceived much less manufactured to any
degree. I am sure that a phone call, out of the blue, about a product line
from 15 years ago to a person who had long since moved onto other things would
yield quite foggy recollections. This is apparently what happened here as the
paperwork Ms. Brooks claims to have shows only the manufacture of the items
that went into actual production and which corresponds to the items she has in
her possession. I am sure, given the opportunity, a Kenner representative
would gladly modify the appraisal of the situation once they saw the virtual
mountain of information gathered by collectors that is available (just on the
web site) proving, without a doubt, that these additional items were indeed
Kenner concepts and did materialize into pre-production sculptings,
polyurethane hardcopies and then metal figures (marked with numbers and
copyrights) exactly like those Ms. Brooks apparently has. I say “exactly”
only referring to their make-up, not to what they actually are. We believe
that Ms. Brooks chose to defy the knowledgeable people in the hobby and rest
her entire case on the shoulders of people who are not experts in the field of
Star Wars and Kenner prototype collecting.
This brings us to the crux of the matter. Ms. Brooks has chosen to take her
case to the public where she makes herself out to be a poor victim. We believe
that she has chosen time and again, to refuse to accept the truth and continue
to live the lie that her collection is worth several hundred thousand dollars
(which I believe is what she thinks $600 x 328 equals). The figures being
sold for $600 exist in mere handfuls because they were only made in those
amounts and what few remain are very rare and valuable today. Because Ms.
Brooks’ figures are similar to these, does not mean they have similar value.
One needs only to look at a stockpile of 328 to know that they can’t be too
rare, but that’s beside the point. Her stuff is common (thus inexpensive) and
well-respected people in the Star Wars collecting hobby have told her that.
She just would not accept the truth.
Ms. Brooks also accused collector Ron Salvatore and The Earth of a conspiracy
to defraud collectors by offering fake merchandise. Again, this was bred of
ignorance because the figures that were made by Mr. Salvatore were made from
resin and marked and sold as reproductions. They could not be confused with
the metal originals sold by The Earth. In fact, Mr. Salvatore and The Earth
weren’t even in contact with one another about these items. Mr. Salvatore is
a fan and collector, and his items were hand-made in very small amounts and
sold at minimal cost (and literally no profit) for collectors to appreciate.
They were never once purported as originals or priced as such. They could not
have been touted as originals since they weren’t even made of metal as the
originals were. Had Ron Salvatore and The Earth been contacted for their side
of the story prior to the printing of the article I am sure there wouldn’t
have been any misunderstandings.
It is my opinion that Virginia Jarvis Brooks has an incredibly big chip on her
shoulder and a huge case of “sour grapes”. Her collection is probably only a
couple thousand dollars at very best and this infuriates her. With all other
avenues closed off to her, she chose to take her case to the public which has
absolutely no idea what these things are much less what the true story is. I
hope with this letter that it is all quite clear and may even help lead to the
retraction of an article which could blemish what are otherwise trusted
reputations in the hobby.
Sincerely,
Chris Georgoulias
cc:
Rick Kenney
Editor, St. Petersburg Times
Associated Press
Howard Roffman, Lucasfilm, Ltd.
James M. Kipling, Hasbro, Inc.
Darren Marrese II
March 4 1998
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting.misc
Well, I hate to admit it, considering it's not really any of my
business, but I took the liberty of addressing Ms. Brooks myself in a
personal letter I sent out to her on Monday night. It wasn't a nasty
lynch-mob type letter; it was civil minded. I was more or less asking
her if she knew that Steve Sansweet is a Lucasfilm employee and Kenner
SW representative. I also told her why 'I' think she doesn't have a leg
to stand on, and why her vendetta against esteemed collectors like Gus
and Ron, etc. is destined to fail. The next day I had three letters from
her waiting in my mailbox, all about the same things that we've been
discussing over the last few days here on the group. Anyway, for all of
those interested in this thread, here's what she had to say. Most of it
is civil, but there is one letter she sent me that was rather
malicious.
For those of you who are going to read this, I suggest you print it out;
it's pretty long stuff. Here goes:
Subject: Re: ATTN: Virginia Jarvis Brooks
I know very well who Steve Sansweet is and I assure you that I also held
I know Sansweet hasn't and that's why all his facts are wrong. When I
You mentioned the figures that I have, well I have notorized
You have a Good Day as well,
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 05:41:41 -0500
From: ADDRESS KEPT PRIVATE
To: "Darren Marrese II"
him and his opinions in very high regard until I had the opportunity to
speak with him. You're correct when you say he is considered the top
authority on Star Wars. My disagreement with Sansweet is the fact that
he did not properly research the Micro Collection with the Original Engineer
at Kenner. Without speaking to him, over half the proper information was
not told. He was the only person who could authorize first shots for the
Micro Collection, the six digit part numbers, the approvals of all the
stages they went through from the beginning of the project until it was
halted. Sansweet had no clue where the first shots were done for Kenner
or who he authorized to do them until he talked to me which was long after
he had already written stories about the Micro Collection. Ask all your
friends and/or associates these questions.......
1. Who did the first shots for Kenner
2. Who was the Original Engineer of the project
3. How many first shots were authorized by him for each character
4. Where did mass production occur
5. How many phases did each figure go through
6. What were all the approval dates for each figure
7. What is the meaning of the six digit part numbers on the approved
figures
8. How many of you have spoken to the Original Engineer
tried to tell him, he didn't want to hear it. Why? Isn't that his job?
Why didn't he immediately call the Original Engineer? He could have
right then and there proven me wrong, put me in my place and answered
everybody's questions and prevented what is occuring right now. Instead he
told me he was the expert and the Original Engineer did not know what he was
talking about. Well, the Original Engineer produced notorized documentation
of everything he told me about the project from day one until it was halted.
Has Sansweet? Sansweet could have had this information had he called him
himself. Sansweet knows more about the Micro Collection right now but only
because I told him what the Original engineer said. He knew absolutely
nothing on the real facts that only could have come from the Original
Engineer. No regular employee has access to these facts. I know many
employees were asked, but never the Original Engineer who was the only
person in charge from beginning to end and the only person who had full
authorization to do so. Sansweet has some of these bogus figures in
his private collection, and they are bogus beyond any doubt, why didn't he
at least make one phone call to prove me wrong if he felt he was so right?
As an ex editor and a Lucasfilm employee, he certainly had the resources
and the knowledge to do proper research for any project. Why didn't he?
It's still not too late. He may have to retract all the stories he's written
about the Micros, but that's far better than collectors being led to
believe the Unproduced figures are real by someone who is considered the
leading expert. I can prove everything I have said here pal and in my
opinion, it would look more like Sansweet knew what he was doing if he
could honestly say, I have talked to the Original Engineer and have all
copies of all the documentation that covers the entire Micro Collection
Project. Regular employees have some limited information, but they
certainly cannot give notorized documentation for something they were
not the person in authority of. Sansweet can't honestly say that and
neither can the rest of you, but I certainly can. As far as me showing my
documentation to you guys, ha! I've got it and none of you have any
clue as to what I really do have. Let me go back to the six digit part
numbers on the figures. Do any of you know what these numbers reveal? I'll
tell you right now, only the Original Engineer has that information. All of
the important facts and documentation blow the unproduced figures right out
of the water. Did you know that the unproduced figures were discussed as
future possible figures for the Micro line but first shots never occurred
as far as Kenner's involvement because the project was halted? Mock up
boxes were done and the Kenner Photography was done using painted 4 up
hardcopies and not painted first shots because they did not occur.
Again, the Original Engineer was the only person who was authorized by
Kenner, did not authorize first shots to be done for the unproduced Micro line.
They do not exist from Kenner. Period. This I can prove and will at the
proper time.
documentation from the Original Engineer stating exactly what they are and I
have a release from Kenner stating they belong to me and I have all rights to
ownership of them. Can any one of you say you have notorized documentation
from the Original Engineer and/or a release from Kenner stating the
unproduced figures are real and belong to you? I don't think so.
There is an investigation going on right now about all of this, so if I
were you, I would just wait and see what happens next before I said who
I was going to blacklist or call a fraud/liar. One more question, if
this all ends up in court, who do you think will be the real expert of the
project called to testify, the Original Engineer or you and Sansweet?
He can bring all his proof and documentation, all I have heard that you
guys could bring is ex Kenner employees who gave you your information and
yourselves. Before I screamed too loud I'd gather up all my
documentation and I would take a real good look at it because what somebody
tells you is hearsay, all that stands up in a court of law is facts and proof.
I have no plans to argue with anybody about this. I know what I've got and I
know I can prove it. I also know what you guys have and that you can't prove
it, so go ahead and do your thing and we'll see what's what when it's all
over.
Virginia Jarvis
Brooks
Okay, cool. Round one and point taken. But the she sent me this one.
Notice her tone here:
Subject: 1 more thing
One thing I forgot to add. Who do you think I'm going to believe, the
Good day,
Virginia Jarvis Brooks :-)
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 06:20:46 -0500
From: Virginia
To:
Original Engineer and top Kenner officials or some fat little collector
on the West Coast who happens to have a huge ego problem??
OOOkay. What was the point of this message? It sounds like a cheap shot
to me. Then I got this one, and her tone had changed again:
Subject: Micro Collection Figures
When I first found my figures that had been packed away for years, I
He also told me about the unproduced figures and where he bought them
I have learned these fake figures are being sold to a worldwide market as
Virginia Jarvis Brooks
There it is. So, what do you all think of this?
~~Darren Marrese
Click here for part 3 of this thread.
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 10:11:00 -0500
From: Virginia, again
To:
contacted Sansweet, trying to figure out what I did have. He could't
give me a definite answer so I decided to contact Kenner and try to find out.
That's how I found out what I had and who the Original Engineer of the
Micro Collection Project was. After I found out through Kenner, I
called Sansweet back to tell him what I had learned. As I said before, he
wouldn't have it or he wouldn't at least make a couple of phone calls to
at least prove or disprove it and more or less he wasn't going to be
bothered.
at and that was why, in his opinion, he really didn't believe I had such a
great find. He said the unproduced figures were the rare ones. I sent
my collection to Kenner to have them authenticated and when they were sent
back to me, the Original Engineer sent notorized documentation with
them.
After I tried to convince Sansweet of what they said I had, I called
the Original Engineer and told him what Sansweet said about the unproduced
figures and that mine wern't the rare ones. Well that's when everything
got really interesting. The Original Engineer said he did not know what
unproduced figures Sansweet could be talking about but when I find out
to let him know. That's exactly what I did, I copied the pictures and
descriptions from the web site and mailed them to the Original Engineer.
That's when he told me there was no unproduced Micro Collection figures.
He said he was in charge of the entire project from beginning to end and
he did not authorize those figures for first shots and that they could not
exist in metal form, legally, and that they did not come from Kenner.
Somebody else had to make them. He did say they were discussed as
future possibilities but the line was halted and those figures never should
have come off the paper they were drawn on and they didn't as far as Kenner
is concerned. Okay, if that's the case, where are they coming from? I
even talked with other Kenner Officials and they all say only the Original
Engineer would know all this information. It was his project and he is
the only authoritive figure involved. There was no other Engineers for the
Micro Project. The six digit part numbers are the Original Engineer's
coding numbers. Only he could authorize the numbers that were used.
Only he knows their complete meaning. None of the numbers on the unproduced
figures were authorized by him and there was no one else with authority
that could have. They aren't even the same metal or process as the Kenner
Micro's. Okay, by now I believe they are fake. Why are different
people selling them for up to $650.00 each saying they are real, very rare
unproduced Micro Collection figures? Nobody, until myself, has ever
approached the Original Engineer and asked him about the History of the
real Micro Collection. Many stories have been written about them, by
people I once considered very credible. Why didn't they completely
research them first? It was simple for me to get it done. Why couldn't
someone who is considered a top authority do it if I did? Then after
this was brought to Sansweet's attention , why didn't he check into it? Why
was it just blown off? As long as I know and can prove the unproduced
figures are fake and unsuspecting collectors are reading they are real in
various collector magazines, I will not be quiet and let these people continue
to be ripped off. Like I said, this is being investigated, and I do have
all proof and documentation to prove every word I am saying is completely
true.
the real, very rare Kenner Micro figures, but all the real truth and proof
is about to come out about them. I personally hope that every collector
who was taken in by this scam at least makes an attempt to get their money
back and screams to high Heaven until the whole world knows what happened
and exactly who was behind it all. I completely refuse to go away when
I have the proof to prove what my figures really are just because somebody
has an illegal scam going on and wants me to just go away. That isn't
about to happen.
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