MMeazark
April 9 1998
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting.vintage
> Megatroll wrote:
>I wan't to see how many of you I could igniteon
>RTAFand obviusly was very successfull on RTAF.
>I never ever tried to sell my wares there so that
>might tip you off to the fact, that I am not a scalper,
>but was just playing the role as SATIRE.
In numerous posts, all of which can be found on
Dejanews (http://www.dejanews.com/), he either
says he scalps... presented seriously minus the
one mentioned above where people joked about
how he was trolling (yeah, you fooled us all Eric)...
or he condoned it. Now when the issue arises
where he will look like a major hypocrite for
speaking out against gouging people, he reverses
fields and says he was playing a role.
Anyone else get this weird picture of Jon Lovitz'
SNL character, Master Thespian, yelling "I WAS
ACTING!" here?
OK Eric...so now you say you were playing a
role. What this means is a number of possible things...
1) You are still a scalper who is trying to save his image.
2) You are a troll instead of a scalper.
3) You are both a troll and a scalper.
The only thing we know for sure is that you have
openly admitted that you lie in posts. So basically,
anything you say could be entirely false, or since
you mentioned wrestling...a work.
Thanks for at least making that clear for us.
>Obviously, you didn't get the joke,
This last post was your best joke yet. - MM
rlcox
April 10 1998
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting.vintage
> and if I am how do you intend on stopping me.
You have *got* to be joking. I personally dont give a rat's @$$ if you're
scalping POTF2. My point is that you're over here complaining about high
prices and people who want things because they're rare, and you're over in the
"new stuff" groups selling current, right out of the store toys at a markup.
Not *only* that but you've posted yourself over here that you're willing to
buy prototypes for "thousands of dollars" each (cut and pasted below). Some
of which were never conceptualized but are from an old magazine with *wrong*
information. So give me a break.
You're nothing more than a troll and a hypocrite.
Richard
And the post, off dejanews:
Subject: Prototpyes Wanted
From: "MegatronForever"
Date: 1998/03/20
Message-ID: <6ess0b$7vi@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting.vintage
I am looking for the following prototypes-anyone with any leads to these
toys LMK.
I am willing to pay several thousand dollars for each toy.
1) Lando Calrissian 12 inch doll
2) Bespin Torture Chamber
3) Boba Fett MOCK UP With backpack
4) Star Wars Preschool X-wing with Leia and R2 or Landspeeder with Luke and
C-3po as well as any other pieces to this proposed line
5) Great Pit of Carkoon Playset (Scarlacc Pit)-proposed
6) Salacious Doll
7) Dagobah MICRO
8) DEATH STAR II MICRO
9) Jabba Palace MICRO
10) Sand Barge
11) Mos Eisley Space Port-proposed
any other proposed items-must have a convinving paper trail to kenner or
kenner employee
thank you
eric duchak
rlcox
April 10 1998
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting.vintage
> So tell me why does a 50 page full color tomarts action figure digest cost
> only $6, yet for THESE thirty pages, Tomarts is right to tack on an extra
> $70 dollars.
Oh, I don't know... maybe because there's no advertising to help pay for a
book. I know, I know, it's a long shot.. (geez).
Richard
C. W. Walker
April 11 1998
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting.vintage
> MegatronForever wrote:
> Just ask them and yourself if your toys weren't worth anything would you
> still collect them?
Of course. That's why I still buy POTF2. Ten years from now, they will barely
be worth what I paid for them, but I will still like them.
C. W.
stuntboy
April 11 1998
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting.vintage
> certain people are buying anything. I belive that at least 60% of the
> people who started buying Star Wars toys from me in the past two years,
> were buying them with the intent that they were going to skyrocket. And now
well, i really can't contest this. and i do believe that you see many
speculators, but i just think you can't lump in everyone like that.
> sold them for, well it kinda confirms my thinking. I mean I have to wonder
> what a person was thinking when they bought a carded figure for full book
> and than go and sell it for 1/4 of what they paid me. Or when you buy back
well, that's just stupid no matter how you cut it. i don't see how a person
(especially a speculator!) would take a 75% loss on an item he bought for
investment.
> makes my head spin. Maybe your involvement is a lot less with casual
> collectors, but when you attend several flea markets a week and six shows a
> month, as well as the weekly stop to the local toy shop as well as talking
> to several other dealers, pickers, and collectors-the story seems to be the
> same everywhere and with anyone.
i guess it does depend on who you are in most contact with and who you care
about. you're on this end while i'm on the other end. frankly i don't have
much in common with the casual collector so i don't tend to dwell on what they
do or how they act. fly-by-night folks can be found in every hobby, activity
or interest. you just have to overlook their temporary partcipation and
support the folks who have genuine interests.
i still think that you are trying to pigeonhole all collectors (in a
collecting forum like this) based on your experiences with casual collectors
and/or speculators and it's unfair to do such a thing. you just can't assume
that everyone who buys "rare" items conforms to your definition. the
speculators rarely spend lots of time in a forum like this newsgroup because
they aren't here for interest and knowledge, they are in it for the money. so
you are really kind of pointing fingers at the wrong people.
-chris
stuntboy
April 11 1998
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting.vintage
> > If you are scalping POTF2, maybe we should move over to RASSCm and see
> > what they think.
>
> and if I am how do you intend on stopping me.
well, i guess this is an admittance. nobody can stop you from scalping new
toys, but what this practice does is tear down your credibility on the issue
of speculators and makes you a hypocrite. thus, basically negating your
"innocent" view of the hobby.
-chris
rlcox
April 11 1998
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting.vintage
> like i've said before I realise that some of those items never got past the
> conceptual stage, but if there is any prospect that they did, well then I
> want a piece of them.
Fine, but my points, which you keep skirting, remain. You scalp POTF2 but
complain about the high prices of vintage. Then you say you want vintage
protos, which you're willing to pay thousands for!!??????
BTW, do you want them because you're greedy or envious (to paraphrase you)?
Richard
Gus Lopez
April 11 1998
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting.vintage
> MegatronForever wrote:
>So tell me why does a 50 page full color tomarts action figure digest cost
>only $6, yet for THESE thirty pages, Tomarts is right to tack on an extra
>$70 dollars.
Good question. Tomart's AFD has advertising to offset the cost. Based on
what they told me, a hardcover, color version of the Tomarts guide costs a
lot due to the type of binding and amount of printing involved.
Gus
CABLEPETE
April 11 1998
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting.vintage
> Matthew Templeton writes:
>I am not sending this to cause an uproar but just as a concern. I know
>this is a public forum, but I think it is a shame that some people
>cannot help but use foul language in their posts. You do realize that
>many children see these?!?! That type of language is just a lack of
>intelligence, IMO. Let's act like the mature adults that we should be
>and set examples for the ones younger than us. All that these kind of
>posts can accomplish is give the newsgroup or our hobby a bad rep. This
>is not a cut to one specific person just a concern from a fellow
>newsgrouper!
fair comment, I think.
pete
Michael Mierzwa
April 11 1998
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting.vintage
> Pamela Green wrote:
> The sad fact is, though, for you folks who don't want to spend $100 on the
> new Tomart's guide, I'm betting that all of those pictures will probably
> be available somewhere on the web literally within hours after the book is
> out.
And why do you consider that sad. I've been largely quite about this
issue, knowing that I will eventually see these pictures of things that
I really am not too terribly interested in. This sounds good FACPOV
(From a Certain Point of View). :)
Michael Mierzwa
Michael Mierzwa
April 11 1998
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting.vintage
> Kirsten Schaulin wrote:
> I didn't mean to imply that Gus, et al aren't selective buyers, however,
> spending $2000 on any one SW item *is* "throwing away" money to me.
Shoot! Spending more than $200 seems like a sin to me! ;) Of course
I've come very close to that on a *single* item once and know there is
plenty of items I won't be owning anytime soon.
No I can think of other uses of $2 G. It all comes down to personal
preferences!
> Do you see
> the distinction? It's just a different arrangement of priorities.
Completely! :)
Michael Mierzwa
Chris Fawcett
April 11 1998
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting.vintage
> I wasn't talking about prototypes, I was talking about production carded
> figures. if you think $3000 for a carded Yaf is justified, well think
Well, you didn't read my mail very well then did you? Note I said: "I
would rather spend $2000 on *one* cool vintage prototype or even one
vintage production figure..."
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> spend on a book because some pay $1000 bucks an item. Well wheter you like
> it or not you are being exploited for that $100 bucks, but if it seems that
> if that $100 bucks feeds your ego and divides collectors into haves and
> have nots, well then that exploitation is fine as long as Tomart has
> elevated me to the next *class* of star wars collectors!!!
It's really quite simple. If you think it's worth $100 to you, then buy
it, if you don't don't. How is there any exploitation here? It's not
like anyone's holding a gun to anyone's head forcing them to buy it.
There's nothing here about "class" and "ego". Sheesh, it's a book!!
> Quantity does not necessarily make a person
> > happy. Some people would rather have that one quality piece than a
> > thousand pieces everyone and their brother has.
>
> But is that all there is left in star wars collecting, "I have it, you
> don't NAH NAH NAH NAH" That is so childish. Personally I would LOVE to get
I never said this. There are people who would rather have a few quality
pieces over a ton of "common" pieces. There are people who would rather
have a gazillion POTF2 figures than one vintage figure. Neither is
right or wrong. If it makes them happy, then that's all that's
important. I have some great friends who only collect POTF2. I never
say "NAH NAH NAH" to them. I respect their collecting style. I was
just pointing out in my post that *you* were not respecting my style of
collecting by implying that I would "enjoy" my collection more by buying
100 $10 items rather than one $1000 item.
> produced. I want them to live what might have been, not to beat out some
> other colector. This is not a competition, this is supposed to be fun!!!
When did I ever say it was a competition????
> Obvoiusly though it has come down to rarity over anything else. Why does > everyone want VLIX?? I bet half of those out there looking for them don't
I don't want Vlix. :) I think it's a stupid looking figure and
wouldn't spend $20, let alone $1000. I just don't like it.
> have all or any of the non movie related Droids figures. So why do you
> want it? I know- OMIGOD HE'S GOT A VLIX! WOW!!! big deal!! get real!!!!
> Buy what you really want and be happy, but don't go out there trying to
Right!!!!! That's what I'm saying. But in your original post you don't
seem to understand that there are people out there who would gladly
spend $2000 on a Yak Face and it would *make* *them* *happy*!!!! What's
wrong with this?
> collect to impresss your fellow star wars collectors for in the next 10
> years STAR WARS collecting will be like it was in 1987 and very few of us
> wiill still be here. I know I will, will you? Rarity does not mean
> quality and it dosent' mean happiness.
No, not necessarily. But rarity does not automatically exclude quailty
and happiness either.
Cj
Chris Fawcett
April 11 1998
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting.vintage
> MegatronForever wrote:
> because it is so cool. for some reason rarity=cool and i just think that
> it is the wrong way to collect .
What if, for me, I *do* think rarity is cool? is there something
inately wrong with that? I like rare stuff. So what?
Cj
Chris Fawcett
April 11 1998
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting.vintage
> John Wooten wrote:
> "institution"? From what I've read, everyone here is basically in agreement
> about the high cost. For some it's worth it, others it's not. That's sorta
> how the world works. A vintage Han Hoth prototype large figure isn't worth
> $100 to me, let alone thousands. It's a personaly decision for each of us,
> and from what I see here, others are emphasizing that too. From your post, I
> would think that we're all on the same side here.
Are you trying to anger me John? :)
Sheesh. *everyone* knows the Han Hoth 12" proto is *the* holy grain of
SW toy collecting. :)
Cj
-Han Hoth Collector
Chris Fawcett
April 11 1998
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting.vintage
> MegatronForever wrote:
> I think that you and others are real naive to think that peole are paying
> big bucks for certain star wars toys, just because they like them, that
Ha!!!! How rich do you think most SW collectors are?!?!?!? We don't
have $1000 to spend at the drop of a hat on something we don't really
like!!!! There's plenty of $1000 items out there to choose from. If
I'm going to spend that kind of money, I'm going to pick on of those
items that I can enjoy!
> may be they way you see it, but I gotta belive otherwise. A LOT of people,
> wether they be collectors or speculators, are spending big bucks on items
> because of speculatory interests. How many of you are missing cheaper ROTJ
Now speculators are another story altogether...
Cj
Chris Fawcett
April 11 1998
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting.vintage
> MegatronForever wrote:
> a lot, but remember there are a lot of people who wouldn't pisss on a ESB
> carded FX-7, but would go absolutely ape-shit to have the only austrailian
> POTF FX-7 in existence (this is only being used as a for instance , I know
> this figure has never surfaced).
So what's wrong with that?? I would do this in a heartbeat. Of course,
I collect POTF stuff, so that's my excuse. :) But I certainly know I
would *enjoy* a POTF FX-7 *way* more than an ESB FX-7. Are you telling
me that it's impossible for that to happen? That if I wanted the POTF
FX-7, my collecting habits must have been driven by greed and
status-seeking?? Why? Would you say the same if someone liked a ESB
FX-7 more than a POTF FX-7??? Why can't you like one and not like the
other??
> Just ask them and yourself if your toys weren't worth anything would you
> still collect them?
Yup. I would *love* it if they weren't worth anything. Then I could
*buy* a lot more!!!!!!!!!! In fact, I've seen a fairly major downturn
in carded POTF in the last few months. And I'm bouncing off the wall
with joy at the prices I've been buying things at.
Cj
John Wooten
April 11 1998
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting.vintage
>Are you trying to anger me John? :)
>
>Sheesh. *everyone* knows the Han Hoth 12" proto is *the* holy grain of
>SW toy collecting. :)
Holy Grain?
thought that was Beck's Dark, myself, but whatever...
John
Chris Fawcett
April 11 1998
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting.vintage
> MegatronForever wrote:
> Hey, John, listen if that is what you want to interpert these posts as than
> so be it. But I can't help but belivve that half the people on this group
> and half of the people who collect anything, collect because someone has
> attached a dollar sign to thier desired items,and if you cannot see that to
> an extent, well then you are really naive. This has become an industry
How do you know *you're* not the one that is naive and John has hit it
right on the head? I'm not saying either of you is right, just
"never say never." There is no way you can possibly be 100% sure of
what you're claiming just from your experience. Unless you've down a
poll of all the SW collectors in the world.
> like baseball cards and comic books and is filled with collectors, dealers
> and speculators. Whether you want to face the truth that there are many
> out there buying with less noble intentions than yourself , well than so be
> it. But really, you mean to tell me so many people are after Vlix, because
> they are in love with this figure or is it the status attached to it and
> the big dollar signs? But I forgot people are completists? That's why
> most don't have the Takara large figures yet right? I don't claim that
Most of the Vlix hunters I know want him because he's technically a
production figure and they're completeists. They want all of the
regular 3-3/4" line, from SW through Droids and Ewoks.
> everyone is after every piece for speculation or less noble intents, but a
> lot of people are swept up into a frenzy when the hear "rare" and it seems
> to dictate their buying habits, that's all. That is all I ever said,
So, what's wrong with liking rare stuff?
> people seem to get off on rartiy and even you and others admmitted that.
> "oh, Why collect what everyone and their brother has" So why are you
> collecting then? Because no one else has it, because you really like the
> item or just the vast majority of people do not have anything like it. I
Because I like to have (and see in others collections) unique and
interesting things. not jsut another dog-chewed Wicket figure. And it
jsut so happens that most unique things are rare. (Kind of the
definition isn't it?) I mean if *everyone* had the *exact* same
collections - let's say a complete loose figure colection - how
interesting would it be to show others your stuff, to go look at your
friends pieces? TO develop a collecting community??? It would just be
"Oh, look, another loose figure collection. Hmmm. Check out how he
made those shelves..."
> mean really think about what some of your comments mean and really try toi
> analyse what they are saying. Anyone who starts saying that they are
> collecting because no one else has it, seems pretty selfabsorbed and are
> definitely not collecting for the right reasons...
In your opinion.
Cj
Chris Fawcett
April 11 1998
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting.vintage
> Holy Grain?
> thought that was Beck's Dark, myself, but whatever...
LOL! Ha! That'll teach me to proofread. :)
Cj
Michael Mierzwa
April 11 1998
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting.vintage
> Hey, John, listen if that is what you want to interpert these posts as than
> so be it. But I can't help but belivve that half the people on this group
> and half of the people who collect anything, collect because someone has
> attached a dollar sign to thier desired items,and if you cannot see that to
> an extent, well then you are really naive.
John never said that people don't collect for those reasons, some do!
But his point is that a large number of collectors would display SW
figures if they cost $0.50 a piece or $50 a piece! (Of course the
pricier collections might be protected by some sort of droid security
thingie). ;)
But if you are *interested* in finding out why people collect instead of
making a guess based on little or no information, you can start by
knowing that I buy SW figures because I love the film and think the toys
are actually pretty fun to stand around the room or computer.
If the US govt sent an Admiral Ackbar to every man, woman, and child in
the US, I'd still like him. Rarity isn't an issue with my collection.
NOTE: Rarity has caused the prices of many pieces to be such that I
can't afford them *yet*, but that doesn't change how much I like a piece
or not. Just my willingness and/or ability to own it right now. :/
> But I forgot people are completists? That's why
> most don't have the Takara large figures yet right?
Actually complete collections don't imply "Everything SW", but rather a
compete display of a series or theme.
Example: a good friend collects *only* Klingon Star Trek Figures. His
collection is almost complete. And has a very specific focus, but he
will buy any Klingon made by playmates. It sounds fairly complete.
Now for SW completists, you can try to collect all the figures either
including or NOT including the droids and ewok figures. You can try to
collect just the figure types or you can chase variations. Just becase
a loose figure collector doesn't have a telescoping Vader doesn't mean
he/she isn't a completist.
> I don't claim that
> everyone is after every piece for speculation or less noble intents, but a
> lot of people are swept up into a frenzy when the hear "rare" and it seems
> to dictate their buying habits, that's all.
But do you know why this is so? It isn't because most of these people
are easily swayed. It is because if something is rare today, people
logically think that tomorrow it will be more rare. And as the "supply"
or availablity of an item decreases, its price goes up. So if I told
you that you had a choice between buying a Blue Snaggletooth in 1990 for
$50 (your only chance) versus buying a Blue Snag TODAY for $125, what
would you do assuming you had $100 in your pocket "then" and $200 in
your pocket "now"?
Of course there are tons of reasons. Some I personally like, and others
I don't. :/
Michael Mierzwa
Michael Mierzwa
April 11 1998
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting.vintage
> apples and oranges. collecting droids and ewoks is an extension of collecting
> the movie figures - if people choose to go that far. thus, vlix is a
> "necessary" part of it. the takara figures are akin to the 12" dolls which
> aren't considered part of the standard action figure line.
Argh! ;)
I just got through trying to say that a completist need *not* collect
the droid or ewok figures in order to be a completist!
And I'm sticking with it. "Complete" is a relative term.
Do you collect "complete" apples? Or do you just collect all the Granny
Smith Apples?
Otherwise people might say no collection is complete until people buy
the battle star gallatica figures, buck rodgers figures, black hole
figures, star trek figures, 10,000 brands of knock offs, etc, etc.
Michael Mierzwa
Eb Morejon
April 11 1998
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting.vintage
> Just ask them and yourself if your toys weren't worth anything would you
> still collect them?
Yes, I would. I don't collect POTF2 and vintage Star Wars to one day
finance my child's college education. I could care less about how much
the vintage Y-Wing and Tie Interceptor I bought this year are going to
be worth 5 or 10 years from now. I collect them because I love Star Wars
and I never had the opprtunity to own them when I was a child.
Gus Lopez
April 11 1998
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting.vintage
>I didn't mean to imply that Gus, et al aren't selective buyers, however,
>spending $2000 on any one SW item *is* "throwing away" money to me.
>(which is why I wrote IMO in my original posting) Pamela, you can't
>deny that your husband has done this on occaision, can you? Do you see
>the distinction? It's just a different arrangement of priorities.
Just for the record, I've spent over $2000 on a single item only *twice*
in my life--the 12" Han Hoth proto and a rocket firing Boba Fett first
shot. As a point of comparison, other people have spent more on
production telescoping and vinyl cape figures that I even spent on those
two splurges.
Every single other item in my collection cost less than this threshold.
Gus
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