Subject:      Re: Trouble Afoot from prototype owner and Hasbro legal
From:         stuntboy@ols.net
Date:         1998/03/04
Message-ID:   <6dl6tu$n4e$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>
Newsgroups:   rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting.misc

In article <19980304004301.TAA24511@ladder02.news.aol.com>,
  salfamily@aol.com (Salfamily) wrote:
>
> Yes, this is key. As I said in another post of mine in this thread: stick
> to the obvious inaccuracies of what was printed in that article and keep it
> civil. I think there's plenty there that an experienced collector can attack
> without getting into, as Pam calls them, "technical points."

though there are plenty.  :^)

i agree that people should stick to the points in the article and base the
rest on what you know about the micro stuff yourself.  some of the points
about what she's done and whatnot are probably better left to those of us who
have had contact with her.

> Below is a copy of my very long, very overwrought letter to the editor. They
> asked for it!! :^)

well, continuing this tradition.  here is the manifesto i came up with.  these
letters are long, but there are just too many points to cover in a brief
letter.  especially when you consider that you first have to educate the
reader on what in the heck you're even talking about.  :^)

------

Chris Georgoulias
xxxxxx
xxxxxx
xxxxxx
stuntboy@ols.net

March 3, 1998

Editor
Winter Haven News Chief
P.O. Box 1440
Winter Haven, FL  33882

Dear Editor:

I'm writing concerning the February 23,1998 Associated Press story titled
"Fakes Affecting Value of Rare Collectibles" in which a woman named Virginia
Jarvis Brooks claims that a fraud has been committed against her and the
entire Star Wars collecting marketplace.  I believe that what we actually have
here is a $200,000 case of sour grapes.

The problem at hand is not whether there is a conspiracy to devalue Ms.
Brook's items, but that knowing too little can put undue strain on a person.
Although I was not mentioned by name by Ms. Brooks, I can assure you that I am
one of the "internet collectors" that she refers to in the article.  Realize
also that the comments I make here are based only on what I know about these
events and are my opinion of the situation.  Getting this out of the way I
will begin with the fact that I, Gus Lopez and Ron Salvatore were first
contacted in October 1997 by two people named "Lou" and "Tim" who shared the
same email address,  took over for one another during the exchanges and, not
surprisingly, came across with a tone similar to the person we would later
find out to be Virginia Jarvis Brooks.  We now believe that "Lou" and "Tim"
were names Ms. Brooks herself was using.  From the first instant, the
accusations were flying - that we were dead wrong about what we had written in
Mr. Lopez' web site (www.toysrgus.com) about items that were related to what
she had.  The web site is a collaborative effort showcasing items from
collections all over the world in a museum-like environment and is quite
well-known in the collecting community.  Items are grouped into categories and
the image of each item is accompanied by a description.  Because of personal
interests and collecting focus, many of the items in the archive are of
"prototypes" or items that were predecessors to the toys made by Kenner.  Some
of the prototypes show various stages of pre-production while others show
items that were conceived but never produced for one reason or another.

What Ms. Brooks apparently bought 15 years ago for $15 are 328 unpainted
figures from Kenner's 1982 "Micro Collection".  This was a new line of toys
featuring miniature metal figurines packed with small plastic playsets. All
told, there were well over 5 dozen different figures created to accompany the
assortment of playsets and vehicles. These toys were (and still are) quite
common on the collector's market even still mint in original packaging.  The
large number of these toys made spilled over into the amount of items that
were available to people inside Kenner, namely the figures themselves.  These
items quite frequently made their way to flea markets and swap meets which is
precisely where Ms. Brooks states that she bought collectibles. As we can see
by the sheer size of Ms. Brooks' stockpile, unpainted versions of these
production figures were easily found and are still relatively easy and cheap
to obtain.  In fact, the store mentioned in the article,  The Earth, sells
these very same figures for only a few dollars each since they are in such
abundance.  Now, these unpainted figures were not available to consumers or
generally circulated, so they do garner some appreciation by collectors who
desire items that differ from "the norm".  Also, there were at least 5
playsets (including about 2 dozen figures) conceived by Kenner for the 1983
season but that never materialized into items that went into production.
Proof of the existence of several of these playsets and their figures has come
about from various collectors, ex-Kenner employees and from trade magazines
such as Action Figure Digest and Action Figure News and Toy Review. Much of
this information is gathered and presented on the web site mentioned earlier.
 It is pretty easy to understand why collectors would want items from these
playsets since they never saw the light of day as far as production went.  It
is my opinion that this is where Ms. Brooks fails to realize exactly what she
has.  The figures Ms. Brooks has seen selling for upwards of $600 each are
from two of these unproduced playsets which got farther along in the
conceptual process than any of the rest because examples of near-production
quality components exist today.  None of the figures in her collection are of
this type and this apparently has infuriated her.  We believe that she talked
about the value of her collection based on these $600 prices. We believe that
when Virginia contacted people "in the know"  about her items she did not like
to hear a worth of  "a few dollars each" when she had seen "similar" items
selling for $600 each. In fact, at one point, she was saying that her 328
figures, which she apparently bought for a TOTAL of about $15, were worth
$100,000 EACH!   She stated that she decided to contact Kenner for more
"official" information through their customer service number.  Mind you,  a
few of us had done quite a bit more research into the history of these items
than she or any Kenner person would ever have.  This includes flying to
Cincinnati, Ohio (homebase of Kenner) twice and talking to ex-Kenner employees
and collectors who have items in their possession.  These trips were not
related to the situation at hand, but for general knowledge of the hobby.  It
is my opinion that what information Ms. Brooks supposedly found from her
Kenner contacts is incomplete at best.  Her sources supposedly state that only
certain items ever went to a vendor for manufacture, but these do not include
any of the "unproduced"  items.  However, this difference between "produced"
and "unproduced" is pretty self-explanatory.  It was the assumption of
Kenner's James Golden and Ms. Brooks that anything that did not show up on
this old paperwork was never even conceived much less manufactured to any
degree.  I am sure that a phone call, out of the blue, about a product line
from 15 years ago to a person who had long since moved onto other things would
yield quite foggy recollections.  This is apparently what happened here as the
paperwork Ms. Brooks claims to have shows only the manufacture of the items
that went into actual production and which corresponds to the items she has in
her possession.  I am sure, given the opportunity, a Kenner representative
would gladly modify the appraisal of the situation once they saw the virtual
mountain of information gathered by collectors that is available (just on the
web site) proving, without a doubt, that these additional items were indeed
Kenner concepts and did materialize into pre-production sculptings,
polyurethane hardcopies and then metal figures (marked with numbers and
copyrights) exactly like those Ms. Brooks apparently has.  I say "exactly"
only referring to their make-up, not to what they actually are. We believe
that Ms. Brooks chose to defy the knowledgeable people in the hobby and rest
her entire case on the shoulders of people who are not experts in the field of
Star Wars and Kenner prototype collecting.

This brings us to the crux of the matter. Ms. Brooks has chosen to take her
case to the public where she makes herself out to be a poor victim. We believe
that she has chosen time and again, to refuse to accept the truth and continue
to live the lie that her collection is worth several hundred thousand dollars
(which I believe is what she thinks $600 x 328 equals).  The figures being
sold for $600 exist in mere handfuls because they were only made in those
amounts and what few remain are very rare and valuable today.  Because Ms.
Brooks' figures are similar to these, does not mean they have similar value.
One needs only to look at a stockpile of 328 to know that they can't be too
rare, but that's beside the point.  Her stuff is common (thus inexpensive) and
well-respected people in the Star Wars collecting hobby have told her that.
She just would not accept the truth.

Ms. Brooks also accused collector Ron Salvatore and The Earth of a conspiracy
to defraud collectors by offering fake merchandise.  Again, this was bred of
ignorance because the figures that were made by Mr. Salvatore were made from
resin and marked and sold as reproductions.  They could not be confused with
the metal originals sold by The Earth.  In fact, Mr. Salvatore and The Earth
weren't even in contact with one another about these items.   Mr. Salvatore is
a fan and collector, and his items were hand-made in very small amounts and
sold at minimal cost (and literally no profit) for collectors to appreciate.
They were never once purported as originals or priced as such.  They could not
have been touted as originals since they weren't even made of metal as the
originals were.  Had Ron Salvatore and The Earth been contacted for their side
of the story prior to the printing of the article I am sure there wouldn't
have been any misunderstandings.

It is my opinion that Virginia Jarvis Brooks has an incredibly big chip on her
shoulder and a huge case of "sour grapes".  Her collection is probably only a
couple thousand dollars at very best and this infuriates her. With all other
avenues closed off to her, she chose to take her case to the public which has
absolutely no idea what these things are much less what the true story is.  I
hope with this letter that it is all quite clear and may even help lead to the
retraction of an article which could blemish what are otherwise trusted
reputations in the hobby.

Sincerely,



Chris Georgoulias

cc:
Rick Kenney
Editor, St. Petersburg Times
Associated Press
Howard Roffman, Lucasfilm, Ltd.
James M. Kipling, Hasbro, Inc.